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Its all about the engine...right?

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Its all about the engine...right?

Old 03-02-08, 07:25 PM
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interceptor
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Its all about the engine...right?

I mean, one bike is not faster than another...right? It's you doing the work....
What i'm sayin is, I have a Trek 2200 aluminum frame, ultegra/105 components
michelin pro race tires and bontrager wheels. Would like to go faster and obviously its
me that has to do it but would a newer, more expensive bike give me added speed on its own?
I am happy with my bike that I have upgraded somewhat since I had it but can't help
stopping all the time at the LBS and lookin at bikes that cost 3x the amount than mine originally did.
They are a little lighter than mine and some have ultegra and some dura ace. I don't know man...
I love my bike and riding...not really hardcore, but getting there, just need some input and maybe a slap in the face and someone saying .....be happy with what you have and work harder and stay the hell away from the LBS! MMMMMMMMMMMMMM.......BIKES!
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Old 03-02-08, 07:28 PM
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Yes it is.
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Old 03-02-08, 07:37 PM
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i've had my ass thouroughly handed to me by a guy on a 25 pound full carbon bike from the 1980s. might he have gone faster on a lighter bike? yes, but who cares really? a rider makes the bike, not the other way around.

what are your goals? if your goal is to be the fastest cyclist on the streets, then i'll laugh at you. feel free to spend as much money as you want in this case.

but it really sounds like you have a decent bike. are you into serious competitive racing? if not, it seems like you'd be pissing money away by upgrading your bike. and who knows, you might just end up missing your old bike if you replace it anyway.
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Old 03-02-08, 07:39 PM
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Stay away from the LBS...



...for now.
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Old 03-02-08, 07:45 PM
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Keep the bike you have and spend the money traveling to a new place to ride for a week or on a supported ride/tour. You will be re-motivated to ride at home and you will do it faster with the miles in your legs.
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Old 03-02-08, 07:46 PM
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n+1...

Don't you need a rain bike...

The 2200 could fit that bill...

Now you need a trophy bike...

n+1...
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Old 03-02-08, 07:47 PM
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Buying bike stuff is a hobby completely unattached to the hobby of getting faster on a bike. You can buy teen tiny bits of speed, but the fitness well is extremely deep. I'm racing a 19lb steel bike with lots and lots of spokes. Today I stayed in the main chase group in a fast field, where 2/3 of the people were shelled off the back. I got 2nd in the field sprint, but missed the break that won.

I am not blaming the bike one bit for missing the break...

If you want to buy bike stuff, go for it. If you want to get faster, don't relate that to the bike stuff. The only place you can buy significant speed is a TT bike and components. It can add up, but in three months, I've bumped my threshold power as much as any TT gear gains beyond $50 aero bars. I'm up probably 40-45W this year so far just on fitness. You get 15W for wheels, 5W for a nice frame...

So, if you want to get fast, train right.
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Old 03-02-08, 07:59 PM
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no, just no.
it's not a question of philosophy but rather of physics.
less weight, easier climbs.
less road vibe, less ass soreness.

that's not to say losing a few pounds or riding more wouldn't help...
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Old 03-02-08, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Buying bike stuff is a hobby completely unattached to the hobby of getting faster on a bike.
Well said, and many of us enjoy both hobbies.

However, saying the bike makes NO difference is obviously not true either, otherwise Lance could have won the TdF on a Walmart MTB with shocks--patently not true.

All the little improvements--lighter components, dished wheels, racing tires--can add watts here and there, themselves insignificant, but together enough that you might notice a difference. The question we have to decide is, are those improvements (real but very small), worth all the dollars?

FWIW, I have a "slow" relaxed geometry road bike with long wheelbase and fairly recently bought a low-end carbon bike with a more aggressive geometry for racing and fast group rides... The carbon bike is quicker off the mark, responds more quickly to accelerations, and is faster up the small hills; but on relatively flat routes, over short and long distances, I've yet to see a difference in ave speeds between the two...
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Old 03-02-08, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Buying bike stuff is a hobby completely unattached to the hobby of getting faster on a bike. You can buy teen tiny bits of speed, but the fitness well is extremely deep. I'm racing a 19lb steel bike with lots and lots of spokes. Today I stayed in the main chase group in a fast field, where 2/3 of the people were shelled off the back. I got 2nd in the field sprint, but missed the break that won.

I am not blaming the bike one bit for missing the break...

If you want to buy bike stuff, go for it. If you want to get faster, don't relate that to the bike stuff. The only place you can buy significant speed is a TT bike and components. It can add up, but in three months, I've bumped my threshold power as much as any TT gear gains beyond $50 aero bars. I'm up probably 40-45W this year so far just on fitness. You get 15W for wheels, 5W for a nice frame...

So, if you want to get fast, train right.
Repeated (again) for emphasis.

Listen to Waterrockets.

He knows what he's writing about, lets his legs do the talking, and doesn't waste his time with fancy new toys, unless they actually serve a purpose.

Last edited by botto; 03-02-08 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 03-02-08, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by interceptor View Post
I mean, one bike is not faster than another...right? !
Well I used to say yes it's all about the rider, but now I say no, some, maybe alot is about the bike.
I have a hill here locally that I have kept track of my best times for years climbing it.
I had an 88 Trek 1000 with mid 90's 14 speed parts, and a 2004 24 spd trek 1000. My best time up was with the 04' Trek 7:10, then with the 88 trek 7:19. I liked the frame on the 88 trek much more so I rode it alot, in late Nov. I set the 7:19 time with it. Then it got cold, and I didn't ride alot, except my commute. Then in late dec I bought an Orbea Aqua with centaur. I tried it out on the hill, 1st try-6:35 seconds. 44 seconds faster, even though I didn't ride alot in November and December.
The bike is very much noticably faster up hills. Top cruise speed feels about the same, downhill speed is still limited by courage not bike.
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Old 03-02-08, 08:28 PM
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The engine and the bike both matters.

Its just how much importance you give each that really spells the difference.

A rider that trains right on a so-so bike will get faster...the same rider on a top of the line bike will go even faster...

Now economics plays the part as some have "more money than sense" but then again I would rather have more money and the sense to use that money to enjoy my riding!!!! ha ha ha ha...

So if you have the money..buy the best bike you can afford and then train hard and smart to go faster...if not then be like all other BF green yed monsters and say "its not about the bike".... cheers!
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Old 03-02-08, 08:30 PM
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I did loose about 8 pounds between thanksgiving and Xmas? So you have to take that into consideration.
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Old 03-02-08, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by interceptor View Post
I mean, one bike is not faster than another...right? It's you doing the work.... What i'm sayin is, I have a Trek 2200 aluminum frame, ultegra/105 components michelin pro race tires and bontrager wheels. Would like to go faster and obviously its me that has to do it but would a newer, more expensive bike give me added speed on its own?
Nope.

I'm no speed demon, and I've kept up with and passed plenty of people riding $3,000 bikes on my used $350 26-lb 7-speed steel downtube-shifter bike. On big hills at the end of the day, too.

If you want to ride faster, get a heart rate monitor, a training guide, and get to work.
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Old 03-02-08, 08:34 PM
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It's all about the schwag. Nobody can remember faces during a race so if you are blown away you won't be remembered. But, if you have a sick bike in the parking lot before the race, everyone remembers. Cut back on training, work extra hours and buy better bike stuff. Fitness if for pro racers and Richard Simmons.
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Old 03-02-08, 08:36 PM
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Yes and no I would say,I had the same way of thinking as you but I went ahead and got the new bike and man I rode 3,000 more klms this year as a result.So more riding and as a result I got faster.The old bike a trek 2300 was fine but my litespeed is so much more enjoyable to ride I cannot stay off it.
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Old 03-02-08, 08:37 PM
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one thing that could make you a bit faster is different gearing. look at a different cassette.
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Old 03-02-08, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
Nope.

I'm no speed demon, and I've kept up with and passed plenty of people riding $3,000 bikes on my used $350 26-lb 7-speed steel downtube-shifter bike. On big hills at the end of the day, too.

If you want to ride faster, get a heart rate monitor, a training guide, and get to work.
I don't discount training at all, but if you are fast on a 14 speed bike, you would likely be significantly faster on a modern 20 sp 16 pound bike. That's the situation I was in, I'd have never believed how much faster up the hills the new bike was.
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Old 03-02-08, 08:49 PM
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i beat my best time on my weekly 70km loop ride (mountainous) by 17 minutes last week...

just be4 i left the house i had a huge argument with my wife.

conclusion - get angry = go faster.

or for those into algebra, =
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Old 03-02-08, 08:50 PM
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I know a new bike makes you faster.. because you ride harder wanting to justify all the coin you just spent.. but hey.. you are faster.
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Old 03-02-08, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
Repeated (again) for emphasis.

Listen to Waterrockets.

He knows what he's writing about, lets his legs do the talking, and doesn't waste his time with fancy news toys, unless they actually serve a purpose.
Correct. It's not about the bike. Do the miles. Thats where the big gains are. If you expect massive improvements throught equipment in massed start racing you are wanking yourself.

Last edited by classic1; 03-02-08 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 03-02-08, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kesa101 View Post
i beat my best time on my weekly 70km loop ride (mountainous) by 17 minutes last week...

just be4 i left the house i had a huge argument with my wife.

conclusion - get angry = go faster.

or for those into algebra, =
Yea, I have ridden angry a few times and my fastest times were then. So, just have to get pissed off before every ride. OK, thanks all! No , but after readin all this, I'm keepin my bike and HTFU ......thats all.
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Old 03-02-08, 10:04 PM
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dropping someone with a carbon bike is much more satisfying when ur ridin a non-carbon bike
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Old 03-02-08, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
I know a new bike makes you faster.. because you ride harder wanting to justify all the coin you just spent.. but hey.. you are faster.
There is something to that, seriously. Being on a nice bike makes you want to measure up to the bike, if only not to be the subject of ridicule for the guy on the 25 lb. beater that dusts you.
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Old 03-02-08, 10:24 PM
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I'm just not driven by certain levels of equipment. Put me on a $10,000 bike, and I won't go any faster than the physics allows. I understand how others can get there, but I'm not one of them. I'm always trying to measure up to my own potential, not the bike's.
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