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Short list high $1k-mid $3k?

Old 04-04-08, 06:24 PM
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Short list high $1k-mid $3k?

With all due respect & gratitude for your time…The purchase will be LOCAL ONLY, so please:

1. OMIT discount prices; USD-MSRP are appreciated & listed below.
2. Comment ONLY on the six major brands listed because they are the brands available locally.
3. Though I very much appreciate your desire to support a favorite dealer, NO dealer recommendation.

I’ll repost w/ URL’s to the specific make/model if that will help you supply valuable advice.

Male rider, age 53, 6-3, 230 lb, large frame, work out 6 days/week (maxed out leg-press machine decades ago). The more information is relevant to my size/strength/weight the more helpful it may be.

Re-entry five years ago was a comfort bike, then a $2400 MSRP mountain bike last year, now wanting a road bike for the speed (miss the "woosh" from riding motorcycles).

Rides will almost certainly remain below 50 miles, usual rides (estimated 3x/week) will be lower miles. About seven months good riding weather here; sometimes I’ll choose the mountain bike. Wanting quality commensurate w/ a last major bike purchase but also strong desire to limit cost.

Short list (if you can call it that):

'08 Canondale SYSTEMSIX 4, $2400, catalog pg 43 bottom. What about the signature fat front down tube? WCF front/aluminum rear frame may be strongest of all listed here. Salesman favors this bike for me in particular, even over the more costly Specialized sold at same store; advice noteworthy because salesman does Cyclocross, is a service tech & is also a heavyweight (190 lbs). Of factory-assembled bikes finish quality seems a close second only to Jamis. Top choice till being introduced to the far more costly Orbea Orca below.

'08 Jamis Xenith Race, $2500, catalog pg 11, competing dealer mentioned WCF crank failure (FSA SLK Lite Hollow Carbon) but other reports are the WCF cranks are totally reliable. Of factory-assembled bikes finish quality highest, all-WCF. Very impressed w/ what seemed like the lightest weight (though again, because of my weight, grams shaved off the bike yield less advantage than w/ a normal weight rider; frame strength may be a greater advantage especially when flying downhill where my weight increases speed).

’08 Jamis Xenith Comp $1850 same frame as Race w/ lesser components

'08 Specialized Roubaix Expert SRAM Rival $3300, catalog pg 77 top, all-WCF, the SRAM’s hidden handlebar control cables are very attractive

’09 Orbea (Spanish) Onix TDA, estimate $2100

'09 Orbea (Spanish) Orca, $2700 separate frame only, highest finish quality but Jamis Xenith Race seen at different dealer seemed a reasonable second. Estimate $3800 w/ mid-level components assembled by dealer; may consider self-assembly depending on savings after required tool purchase. Will only spend this much if thoroughly convinced of the difference in my personal use. Local salesman is convincing, saying even after thirty years of professional industry experience he was thrilled & excited after riding it.

'08 Giant TCR Alliance $1800
’08 Giant OCR C1 $3k
’08 Giant Advanced 2 $3500

’08 Raleigh Supercourse, Jamis dealer said he is phasing out Raleigh for reliability issues & in favor of Jamis

Notes:

How important is it that Giant & Orbea are manufacturers whereas the other companies may package bikes made by a third party? (Giant dealer said Giant makes low-mid-price bikes for Specialized.)

Do you agree it is irrelevant to current buyers that Canondale was recently sold?

On a personal footnote, after perusing the catalogs, there appear to be too many bicycle choices today; the market & choices seem way too diffused & specialized.

Jimbo

Last edited by ro7939; 04-04-08 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 04-04-08, 06:28 PM
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Orbeas are made in Taiwan just like the Specialized and Jamis.. dont be fooled by the made in Spain claims.
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Old 04-04-08, 06:33 PM
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I predict by the time this is done we will be at 10 pages minimum....

Test ride them all and buy the bike that fits right and feels the best to you.
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Old 04-04-08, 06:35 PM
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You're going to have to pay me to read that.

Originally Posted by ro7939
With all due respect & gratitude for your time…The purchase will be LOCAL ONLY, so please:

1. OMIT discount prices; USD-MSRP are appreciated & listed below.
2. Comment ONLY on the six major brands listed because they are the brands available locally.
3. Though I very much appreciate your desire to support a favorite dealer, NO dealer recommendation.

I’ll repost w/ URL’s to the specific make/model if that will help you supply valuable advice.

Male rider, age 53, 6-3, 230 lb, large frame, work out 6 days/week (maxed out leg-press machine decades ago). The more information is relevant to my size/strength/weight the more helpful it may be.

Re-entry five years ago was a comfort bike, then a $2400 MSRP mountain bike last year, now wanting a road bike for the speed (miss the "woosh" from riding motorcycles).

Rides will almost certainly remain below 50 miles, usual rides (estimated 3x/week) will be lower miles. About seven months good riding weather here; sometimes I’ll choose the mountain bike. Wanting quality commensurate w/ a last major bike purchase but also strong desire to limit cost.

Short list (if you can call it that):

'08 Canondale SYSTEMSIX 4, $2400, catalog pg 43 bottom. What about the signature fat front down tube? WCF front/aluminum rear frame may be strongest of all listed here. Salesman favors this bike for me in particular, even over the more costly Specialized sold at same store; advice noteworthy because salesman does Cyclocross, is a service tech & is also a heavyweight (190 lbs). Of factory-assembled bikes finish quality seems a close second only to Jamis. Top choice till being introduced to the far more costly Orbea Orca below.

'08 Jamis Xenith Race, $2500, catalog pg 11, competing dealer mentioned WCF crank failure (FSA SLK Lite Hollow Carbon) but other reports are the WCF cranks are totally reliable. Of factory-assembled bikes finish quality highest, all-WCF. just picking up the bikes in the stores this seemed to be the lightest & was very impressive in that way (though again, because of my weight, shaving grams off the bike produces less advantage than w/ a normal weight rider; frame strength may be a greater advantage especially when flying downhill where my weight provides more speed).

’08 Jamis Xenith Comp $1850 same frame as Race w/ lesser components

'08 Specialized Roubaix Expert SRAM Rival $3300, catalog pg 77 top, all-WCF, the SRAM’s hidden handlebar control cables are very attractive

’09 Orbea (Spanish) Onix TDA, estimate $2100

'09 Orbea (Spanish) Orca, $2700 separate frame only, highest finish quality but Jamis Xenith Race seen at different dealer seemed a reasonable second. Estimate $3800 w/ mid-level components assembled by dealer; may consider self-assembly depending on savings after required tool purchase. Will only spend this much if thoroughly convinced of the difference in my personal use. Local salesman is convincing, saying even after thirty years of professional industry experience he was thrilled & excited after riding it.

'08 Giant TCR Alliance $1800
’08 Giant OCR C1 $3k
’08 Giant Advanced 2 $3500

’08 Raleigh Supercourse, Canondale dealer said he is phasing out Raleigh for reliability issues & in favor of Jamis

Notes:

How important is it that Giant & Orbea are manufacturers whereas the other companies may package bikes made by a third party? (Giant dealer said Giant makes low-mid-price bikes for Specialized.)

Do you agree it is irrelevant to current buyers that Canondale was recently sold?

On a personal footnote, after perusing the catalogs, there appear to be too many bicycle choices today; the market & choices seem way too diffused & specialized.

Jimbo
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Old 04-04-08, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RelevantCycling
Test ride them all and buy the bike that fits right and feels the best to you.
Wow! That came out way too early, you can't give the ultimate advice right away, you're supposed to let us all argue about our favorite bike for 10 pages remember?
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Old 04-04-08, 07:16 PM
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What, no Treks?
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Old 04-04-08, 07:58 PM
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Where's the custom steel w/ an ultegra group & cxp 33, option?
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Old 04-04-08, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ro7939
With all due respect & gratitude for your time…The purchase will be LOCAL ONLY, so please:

Thanks for the respect; always good to get it when I can...what is your definition of local? Within how many miles of where?

1. OMIT discount prices; USD-MSRP are appreciated & listed below.
When you go to the movies before noon, do you still pay full price?
2. Comment ONLY on the six major brands listed because they are the brands available locally.
3. Though I very much appreciate your desire to support a favorite dealer, NO dealer recommendation.
Ok, but, you might find this information helpful.

I’ll repost w/ URL’s to the specific make/model if that will help you supply valuable advice.

Male rider, age 53, 6-3, 230 lb, large frame, work out 6 days/week (maxed out leg-press machine decades ago). The more information is relevant to my size/strength/weight the more helpful it may be.

Re-entry five years ago was a comfort bike, then a $2400 MSRP mountain bike last year, now wanting a road bike for the speed (miss the "woosh" from riding motorcycles).

Rides will almost certainly remain below 50 miles, usual rides (estimated 3x/week) will be lower miles. About seven months good riding weather here; sometimes I’ll choose the mountain bike. Wanting quality commensurate w/ a last major bike purchase but also strong desire to limit cost.

Short list (if you can call it that):

'08 Canondale SYSTEMSIX 4, $2400, catalog pg 43 bottom. What about the signature fat front down tube? WCF front/aluminum rear frame may be strongest of all listed here. Salesman favors this bike for me in particular, even over the more costly Specialized sold at same store; advice noteworthy because salesman does Cyclocross, is a service tech & is also a heavyweight (190 lbs). Of factory-assembled bikes finish quality seems a close second only to Jamis. Top choice till being introduced to the far more costly Orbea Orca below.
I'm leaning toward the CDale for you; the large downtube is awesome and is the key to the ride. Orca is a popular ride among many on this board, but -- and depends whether you've watched Seinfeld -- would you be comfortable being called Orca the Kavorcka? I understand that this is reasonably common for Orca owners.

'08 Jamis Xenith Race, $2500, catalog pg 11, competing dealer mentioned WCF crank failure (FSA SLK Lite Hollow Carbon) but other reports are the WCF cranks are totally reliable. Of factory-assembled bikes finish quality highest, all-WCF. Very impressed w/ what seemed like the lightest weight (though again, because of my weight, grams shaved off the bike yield less advantage than w/ a normal weight rider; frame strength may be a greater advantage especially when flying downhill where my weight increases speed).
The Xenith is for Billy Goats...do you love climbing? If not, skip it. And, as an aside, the impact of your weight on the downhills will depend on your saddle position; so, don't assume it has as much impact as you might believe.

’08 Jamis Xenith Comp $1850 same frame as Race w/ lesser components
Agreed.

'08 Specialized Roubaix Expert SRAM Rival $3300, catalog pg 77 top, all-WCF, the SRAM’s hidden handlebar control cables are very attractive
A sweet ride without a doubt. Not as good as the SystemSix, but, you need to go with personal feel...lots of Roubaix fans out there...and the SRAM is tough to ignore.

’09 Orbea (Spanish) Onix TDA, estimate $2100
For you, it might deliver the same effect as the Orca.

'09 Orbea (Spanish) Orca, $2700 separate frame only, highest finish quality but Jamis Xenith Race seen at different dealer seemed a reasonable second. Estimate $3800 w/ mid-level components assembled by dealer; may consider self-assembly depending on savings after required tool purchase. Will only spend this much if thoroughly convinced of the difference in my personal use. Local salesman is convincing, saying even after thirty years of professional industry experience he was thrilled & excited after riding it.
Hey, I thought you said no mentioning of dealers...saving money is the least important part about buying tools...tools are for feeling the grease and grit under your fingernails and connecting with your creation...also, after 30 years of sales, who wouldn't be happy to ride an Orca? That point is not very helpful to you.

'08 Giant TCR Alliance $1800
’08 Giant OCR C1 $3k
’08 Giant Advanced 2 $3500
Advance on this at your own risk.

’08 Raleigh Supercourse, Jamis dealer said he is phasing out Raleigh for reliability issues & in favor of Jamis
I wonder who butters this dealers bread?

Notes:

How important is it that Giant & Orbea are manufacturers whereas the other companies may package bikes made by a third party? (Giant dealer said Giant makes low-mid-price bikes for Specialized.)
Irrelevant

Do you agree it is irrelevant to current buyers that Canondale was recently sold?
No

On a personal footnote, after perusing the catalogs, there appear to be too many bicycle choices today; the market & choices seem way too diffused & specialized.
No pun intended, yes?

Jimbo
Good luck Jimbo!! My comments are above in blue.
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Old 04-04-08, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CastIron
You're going to have to pay me to read that.
+1.

P.S. I like Cannondale.
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Old 04-04-08, 08:28 PM
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No ti love here?
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Old 04-04-08, 08:54 PM
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of the ones mentioned i'd say go with the jamis xenith comp. for the amount and type of riding you're talking about it's more than enough ride.
not on the list is the LOOK 555, which would be my choice for your price range.
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Old 04-04-08, 08:56 PM
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Cannondale. Check out the Six13 3 while you're at it. Well equipped w/ Ultegra and Dura Ace RD for the price. ($1999) Not to mention, it doesn't have the massive stem like the System 6.
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Old 04-04-08, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by milchad
Cannondale. Check out the Six13 3 while you're at it. Well equipped w/ Ultegra and Dura Ace RD for the price. ($1999) Not to mention, it doesn't have the massive stem like the System 6.
The SystemSix is a great bike, as is the Specialized Roubaix. For my money, though, milchad hits it on the head. Again, above all, make sure it fits you!
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Old 04-04-08, 09:21 PM
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Custom.

You are tall enough and strong enough that it is one of your best options.
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Old 04-04-08, 09:27 PM
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Is mid $3k enough to go custom? I guess if you were to go steel instead of Ti, you might be able to. Any thoughts?
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Old 04-05-08, 02:52 AM
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One word..........Orbea. The Onix if you want to save some money. The Orca if you want to save a little weight.
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Old 04-05-08, 03:31 AM
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Get Orbea
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Old 04-05-08, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mrt10x
Orbeas are made in mainland China just like the Specialized
Fixed
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Old 04-05-08, 04:08 AM
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the OP is too long. so is the aggregate of all the subsequent posts. therefore, i can't spend any of my important time actually reading any of the posts in this thread. however, i would like to point out that the price range specified is extremely wide. i think more research should be done by the OP before starting a thread with such a wide range of possible choices. i must now continue to drink more alcohol. goodbye.
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Old 04-05-08, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ro7939
Short list (if you can call it that):

'08 Canondale SYSTEMSIX
NOW it's a short list.

Do check out the Six13, too; it's probably what I would get if I had to replace my CAAD8.
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Old 04-05-08, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Zinn-X
the OP is too long. so is the aggregate of all the subsequent posts. therefore, i can't spend any of my important time actually reading any of the posts in this thread. however, i would like to point out that the price range specified is extremely wide. i think more research should be done by the OP before starting a thread with such a wide range of possible choices. i must now continue to drink more alcohol. goodbye.
+1
OP...pick a more specific price and frame material or anarchy will ensue.
For $3K, you can build a nice bike.
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Old 04-05-08, 10:01 AM
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Jimbo,

You've got to jump in here...we need some feedback from you so that we can help you...and why the name ro7939 rather than Jimbo? Are you thinking of getting a 79/39 double? Was Jimbo not available? Inquiring minds want to know.

Milchad and Fat Boy,

Why Six13 for $1999 when SystemSix with similar components can be had for about $400-$500 more? Not that the dollar difference is necessarily small, but, reports on the SystemSix from riders and others is that it is stiffer and a finer ride. Although, I suspect that a Six13 could be scooped at closeout for a price in the neighborhood of $1400-$1600.
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Old 04-05-08, 10:36 AM
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How important is it that Giant & Orbea are manufacturers whereas the other companies may package bikes made by a third party? (Giant dealer said Giant makes low-mid-price bikes for Specialized.)
Specialized is in with Merida which they own 19% of.
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Old 04-05-08, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RelevantCycling
...Test ride them all and buy the bike that fits right and feels the best to you.
This thread was started because I'd be lucky to find one or two XL's to test ride. But I suppose that's really the best & only reasonable advice: Select an XL from whichever dealer has one to ride.

Thanks.
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Old 04-05-08, 11:36 AM
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My original comments & replies in black, your comments in blue...

what is your definition of local? Within how many miles of where?
10 miles of Providence UT 84332 (borders Logan, home of USU)

When you go to the movies before noon, do you still pay full price?
No, but I just figured that I'm going to support the local dealer so the price some distance from here is not very relevant.

3. Though I very much appreciate your desire to support a favorite dealer, NO dealer recommendation.
Ok, but, you might find this information helpful.
Yeah, I'm rethinking that now.

'08 Canondale SYSTEMSIX 4, $2400, catalog pg 43 bottom. What about the signature fat front down tube? WCF front/aluminum rear frame may be strongest of all listed here. Salesman favors this bike for me in particular, even over the more costly Specialized sold at same store; advice noteworthy because salesman does Cyclocross, is a service tech & is also a heavyweight (190 lbs). Of factory-assembled bikes finish quality seems a close second only to Jamis. Top choice till being introduced to the far more costly Orbea Orca below.
I'm leaning toward the CDale for you; the large downtube is awesome and is the key to the ride. Orca is a popular ride among many on this board, but -- and depends whether you've watched Seinfeld -- would you be comfortable being called Orca the Kavorcka? I understand that this is reasonably common for Orca owners.
As big as I am, believe me the Orca metaphor was crystal clear in my mind upon hearing the name.


'08 Jamis Xenith Race, $2500, catalog pg 11, competing dealer mentioned WCF crank failure (FSA SLK Lite Hollow Carbon) but other reports are the WCF cranks are totally reliable. Of factory-assembled bikes finish quality highest, all-WCF. Very impressed w/ what seemed like the lightest weight (though again, because of my weight, grams shaved off the bike yield less advantage than w/ a normal weight rider; frame strength may be a greater advantage especially when flying downhill where my weight increases speed).
The Xenith is for Billy Goats...do you love climbing? If not, skip it. And, as an aside, the impact of your weight on the downhills will depend on your saddle position; so, don't assume it has as much impact as you might believe.
No, I don't like climbing hills much.

Very curious of the relationship between saddle position & top speed downhill. I'm thinking you have 1000x experience more I'll ever have concerning bikes. But I am unbeaten on the Marin (County, CA) Sunday Morning motorcycle ride in the downhill coasting section. By the time I coasted to Alpine Dam only a few miles downhill I was braking hard to keep anyone else in sight behind me. Though I admit speeds are estimated to have averaged below 25mph due to the tight mountain switchbacks.

Is this where you tell me that on downhill bikes approaching 50mph, my increased frontal area will decrease speed more than my weight increases it? (Air resistance increases at the square of velocity?)


'09 Orbea (Spanish) Orca, $2700 separate frame only, highest finish quality but Jamis Xenith Race seen at different dealer seemed a reasonable second. Estimate $3800 w/ mid-level components assembled by dealer; may consider self-assembly depending on savings after required tool purchase. Will only spend this much if thoroughly convinced of the difference in my personal use. Local salesman is convincing, saying even after thirty years of professional industry experience he was thrilled & excited after riding it.
Hey, I thought you said no mentioning of dealers...saving money is the least important part about buying tools...tools are for feeling the grease and grit under your fingernails and connecting with your creation...also, after 30 years of sales, who wouldn't be happy to ride an Orca? That point is not very helpful to you.
Well, regarding the dealers I meant not to suggest a dealer. But as mentioned above, I'm seriously re-thinking that. Have to admit in almost a year I've not really needed any service at all on my mountain bike & I'm expecting similar reliability from the road bike...so maybe purchasing next door isn't such a big deal.

'08 Giant TCR Alliance $1800
’08 Giant OCR C1 $3k
’08 Giant Advanced 2 $3500
Advance on this at your own risk.
Yeah, have to admit I'm starting to loose an earlier affinity for this dealer (Giant/Orbea).

’08 Raleigh Supercourse, Jamis dealer said he is phasing out Raleigh for reliability issues & in favor of Jamis
I wonder who butters this dealers bread?
As someone who has done retail mail order sales, I do NOT envy anyone in the retail business.

Notes:How important is it that Giant & Orbea are manufacturers whereas the other companies may package bikes made by a third party? (Giant dealer said Giant makes low-mid-price bikes for Specialized.)
Irrelevant
That's what I thought.

Do you agree it is irrelevant to current buyers that Canondale was recently sold?
No
How might CD ownership be relevent to a current buyer? Currently I'm sold on the CD if it feels good in the test ride.

On a personal footnote, after perusing the catalogs, there appear to be too many bicycle choices today; the market & choices seem way too diffused & specialized.
No pun intended, yes?
Yes, no "specialized" pun intended. Do you agree it's just too diffused, too many selections, too many market segments?

Many thanks too all.

Jimbo

Last edited by ro7939; 04-05-08 at 11:45 AM.
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