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Florida riding

Old 04-15-08, 04:42 AM
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GMJ04
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Florida riding

Whats the best all around wheel design for mostly flat riding? I live in FL and its 99% flat here except for an overpass, does it make more sense to get a more aerowheel "deeper dish wheel rather than a all around lighter wheel for climbing? since I never climb, thoughts?
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Old 04-15-08, 04:47 AM
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For your purposes, aero.

You will not need a lighter wheel if the overpass is the only change in grade. An overpass is, in no way, a climb nor should it ever be considered a climb. Colorado and California have climbs.
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Old 04-15-08, 05:18 AM
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I agree, I use Carbone SL Ultimates since aero is more important than weight and 53/39 11/23. This gives me just what I need. Aero bars are not a bad idea if you do mostly solo riding, the wind is pretty constant and makes up a bit for lack of climbs.
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Old 04-15-08, 05:19 AM
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1. There ARE climbs in Florida. Those who just did the Quincy Road Race a couple of weeks ago can confirm that. Those who are planning to do the Sugarloaf Road Race in a couple of weeks will confirm that.

2. Lightweight wheels don't only climb well, they accelerate faster, so that even in flat rides they can help (e.g. group rides with lots of surges and pace changes, or criterium racing).

3. For a wheel to be "aero" enough to make a difference you need to get over 40mm. 40mm+ wheels get pretty pricey. Speedwise, if you don't spend a lot of time riding in the mid-20's or higher, aero wheels won't make much of a noticeable difference, anyway. It's like having a spoiler on the back of a car, but never going over 40 mph.

If you won't be racing the old standby all-purpose wheels are still Mavic OPs. They are durable, reasonably priced, and user-serviceable.

Bob
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Old 04-15-08, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GMJ04
Whats the best all around wheel design for mostly flat riding? I live in FL and its 99% flat here except for an overpass, does it make more sense to get a more aerowheel "deeper dish wheel rather than a all around lighter wheel for climbing? since I never climb, thoughts?
What type of riding will you be doing? "Flat" doesn't really mean anything except the terrain.

Are you a weekend warrior racer-wanna-be? Or go smell the petunias kind of guy?
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Old 04-15-08, 06:22 AM
  #6  
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I have some Mike Garcia's which are very close to the Williams wheel system 30's.
They are resonably light and somewhat aero.

The biggest advantage I see with these wheels are the thin spokes.
It has been my experience that the fat bladed spoke's of the Mavic and to some extent Bontrager wheels catch a lot of air in a cross wind. The wind always seems to be blowing in Florida.

Yes there are some climbs in Fl. On a recent Dade City ride the was 2600' of climb over 75 miles.
Yes I know not exactly mountains but more "hills" than you find in the Tampa Area.
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Old 04-15-08, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lex
1. There ARE climbs in Florida. Those who just did the Quincy Road Race a couple of weeks ago can confirm that. Those who are planning to do the Sugarloaf Road Race in a couple of weeks will confirm that.

2. Lightweight wheels don't only climb well, they accelerate faster, so that even in flat rides they can help (e.g. group rides with lots of surges and pace changes, or criterium racing).

3. For a wheel to be "aero" enough to make a difference you need to get over 40mm. 40mm+ wheels get pretty pricey. Speedwise, if you don't spend a lot of time riding in the mid-20's or higher, aero wheels won't make much of a noticeable difference, anyway. It's like having a spoiler on the back of a car, but never going over 40 mph.

If you won't be racing the old standby all-purpose wheels are still Mavic OPs. They are durable, reasonably priced, and user-serviceable.

Bob
in response to comment 1

wrong.
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Old 04-15-08, 08:49 AM
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There are some good climbs in FL, you've probably never ridden there. San Antonio, FL is one of the nicest places I've ridden, and it's fairly hilly. It's not as hilly as here in Texas, but it's nice. I just bought a set of aero rims, 38mm, and I don't really see the hype with them. I don't notice that much of a difference. I race and do fast group rides, so I have a basis to judge. My next set of wheels will most likely be an all around light and stiff set, probably AC sprint 350s. Alot of the racers I rode with in FL used and liked them alot.
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Old 04-15-08, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Rutnick
in response to comment 1

wrong.
Really?

You're invited to the Sugarloaf TT next month. 700+ feet of climbing in 7 miles. That translates to over 100 feet of climbing per mile (roughly the same climbing rate as Georgia's 6-Gap Century--10,000+ feet over 100 miles).

Here's a link to a photo. Admittedly, Sugarloaf is no Mont Ventoux. But at 15% and nearly a mile long, it's far from "flat".

https://community.webshots.com/inline...28591042HjDIZZ

Bob
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Old 04-15-08, 09:36 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lex
Really?

You're invited to the Sugarloaf TT next month. 700+ feet of climbing in 7 miles. That translates to over 100 feet of climbing per mile (roughly the same climbing rate as Georgia's 6-Gap Century--10,000+ feet over 100 miles).

Here's a link to a photo. Admittedly, Sugarloaf is no Mont Ventoux. But at 15% and nearly a mile long, it's far from "flat".

https://community.webshots.com/inline...28591042HjDIZZ

Bob
700 feet in 7 miles?! HAHAHAHAHAHAA

That isn't a climb. Sorry. Heck, my commute into my client's office is 400 ft climbing in 2 miles but I don't consider that a climb.

Even the "hills" around here that aren't at the mountains are about 1200+ft climbing in 1.8 miles (San Ysidro road). And those, dear friend, aren't even considered to be the mountains.

Those aren't climbs that you speak of. Sorry to burst your bubble, but those "climbs" in your claims are ant hills.


OP: go aero. You aren't climbing at all.
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Old 04-15-08, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lex
Really?

You're invited to the Sugarloaf TT next month. 700+ feet of climbing in 7 miles. That translates to over 100 feet of climbing per mile (roughly the same climbing rate as Georgia's 6-Gap Century--10,000+ feet over 100 miles).

Here's a link to a photo. Admittedly, Sugarloaf is no Mont Ventoux. But at 15% and nearly a mile long, it's far from "flat".

https://community.webshots.com/inline...28591042HjDIZZ

Bob
1.8% grade for 7 MILES? umm...that's a joke.

total ride grade may be similar but let me see....7 miles....700 feet.....100 miles and 10000 feet......oh yeah I see the difference 100 freaking miles and 10000 freaking feet of climbing.

Yeah...do your 7 mile section. I'm sure THAT would prepare you for 6 gap.

I've ridden that area. Have fun on Hogpen *THINKING* that the 7 mile and 2% grade will prepare you for that MOUNTAIN that tops out at I believe 14-15% grade at some points.
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Old 04-15-08, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wrote4luck
There are some good climbs in FL, you've probably never ridden there. San Antonio, FL is one of the nicest places I've ridden, and it's fairly hilly. It's not as hilly as here in Texas, but it's nice. I just bought a set of aero rims, 38mm, and I don't really see the hype with them. I don't notice that much of a difference. I race and do fast group rides, so I have a basis to judge. My next set of wheels will most likely be an all around light and stiff set, probably AC sprint 350s. Alot of the racers I rode with in FL used and liked them alot.
apparently you haven't ridden places that really are HILLY or even have mountains.
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Old 04-15-08, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lex
Really?

You're invited to the Sugarloaf TT next month. 700+ feet of climbing in 7 miles. That translates to over 100 feet of climbing per mile (roughly the same climbing rate as Georgia's 6-Gap Century--10,000+ feet over 100 miles).

Here's a link to a photo. Admittedly, Sugarloaf is no Mont Ventoux. But at 15% and nearly a mile long, it's far from "flat".

https://community.webshots.com/inline...28591042HjDIZZ

Bob
hmm...I may have to put on the 11-23 for that one.
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Old 04-15-08, 11:02 AM
  #14  
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OP: I live in OP (wait, that's confusing, Orange Park ) and I ride deep section carbon rims 95% of the time. I think the question regarding your goals for riding is a good one, though, that may help people steer you to a wheel choice.

To the rest of ya: I live in FL, but have ridden Six Gap, a bunch of Cat 1 climbs from the Vuelta Espana in the mountains north of Madrid, etc. There are no long climbs here in FL, but if you're doing a race that loops you over a bunch of short climbs, that can almost be worse IMO.

There's no faking it for a 30 minute climb; you have to settle in at something near FTP and just grind. For these short climbs like the Quincy RR two weeks ago, I end up going over threshold to the top, gasping like a flounder for part of the downhill, only to do it again 3 minutes later. Sucks.
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Old 04-15-08, 11:21 AM
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C'mon guys. Reading comprehension is your friend.

If you re-read my post you will note that:

>I did not claim that Florida has mountains.

>I did not claim that one cannot find tougher climbs elsewhere in the country.

>I did not claim that Florida is a climbing mecca.

I was simply correcting a common (and ignorant) misconception that there are no bicycle climbs in Florida.

15% 1-mile climbs, and climbing rates of 100' per mile are NOT flat. Rides like the "Horrible Hundred" or the "Hilly Hundred" with 5000'+ and 4000+ feet of climbing, respectively, in 100 miles are NOT flat.

Florida's 365-day cycling, plus, believe it or not, challenging topography is the reason why national triathlon and USA cycling camps are located in Clermont, Florida (near Sugarloaf).

So, if you all want to be smug and say that all of Florida is "flat" despite 15% grades, be my guest.

But saying it's so, doesn't make it so.

Bob
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Old 04-15-08, 11:44 AM
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Bobby, while it is true that 100' vertical gain in 1 mile is not flat, it certainly is NOT a climb.
Period.
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Old 04-15-08, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by prendrefeu
Bobby, while it is true that 100' vertical gain in 1 mile is not flat, it certainly is NOT a climb.
Period.
Bingo!

Bob
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Old 04-15-08, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lex
I was simply correcting a common (and ignorant) misconception that there are no bicycle climbs in Florida.
No, the point still stands. You are claiming that there are bicycle climbs in Florida. The case being argued here is that what you consider "climbs" are not climbs. Period. They are not flat, sure, but they are not climbs. There is no ignorant misconception, Bobby. In fact, the ignorance - by definition - would be in thinking that what you are claiming as "climbs" are climbs, when in fact they are not at all.

Which then brings us back to the OP's question of wheel choice: aero or lightweight for climbs. Since there are no climbs in Florida (only small inclines or short verticals), an aero wheelset would be more suited.

If a rider in Florida finds that an overpass or an uphill in that area is difficult, they should ride more and realize a sense of perspective. Those aren't climbs by any means. Just short hills or rollers - not climbs.

Period. Happy riding.
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Old 04-15-08, 12:47 PM
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wow didnt mean to cause such a controversy. I mainly ride in the low 20s and do a few group rides a week. I live in Jacksonville Beach, so the wind is fairly constant. I have not raced yet but may in the near future.

I am in need of new wheels and I guess am looking for best all around wheel for the $. SOunds like unless I am doing a TT I wont get much of an advantage with a deeper wheel.
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Old 04-15-08, 12:50 PM
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I have ridden the "hilly" areas of Florida and I agree that it isn't climbing. There are some short steep hills in a few places. And they can make for some very painful racing. But it isn't climbing.
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Old 04-15-08, 12:58 PM
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It's not a "climb", it's a "short vertical".
********************?

This is semantic sophistry at its best.

Bob

P.S. Here's one of Dictionary.com's definitions: CLIMB> 1. an upward slope or grade (as in a road);
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Old 04-15-08, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GMJ04
wow didnt mean to cause such a controversy. I mainly ride in the low 20s and do a few group rides a week. I live in Jacksonville Beach, so the wind is fairly constant. I have not raced yet but may in the near future.

I am in need of new wheels and I guess am looking for best all around wheel for the $. SOunds like unless I am doing a TT I wont get much of an advantage with a deeper wheel.
Actually, the slower rider gains more time from an aero wheelset, even if it's less percentage, because he's out there longer. Given you're looking for "all around" wheels, and assuming you want new wheels, I'd stick with something reasonably priced, fairly light, and with an aluminum rim for durability.

Depending on which test results you believe, a 30+ mm rim profile like the American Classic 420 may be decently aero, they're fairly light, and durable enough for daily use. There are similar rims available using the deep section "Niobium" rims from Williams, Neuvation, Mike Garcia, et al. I like these sort of rims because they don't use trick parts (proprietary spokes, weird hubs) and they're easily serviceable.
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Old 04-15-08, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lex
It's not a "climb", it's a "short vertical".
********************?

This is semantic sophistry at its best.

Bob

P.S. Here's one of Dictionary.com's definitions: CLIMB> 1. an upward slope or grade (as in a road);
And you, sir, are a person in denial. Semantic sophistry? Let's talk semantics then: definitions of words vary upon the particular culture from which they are being applied. In athletics (cycling included), the definition of "climb" is nothing close to a non-athletic definition of "climb." In cycling, the definition of climb is set at a different standard.

If we go by what you would like to claim as a road cycling definition of climb, being anything with an upward slope or grade, then I have climbs with every ride I take in Los Angeles, in every direction. Then that makes riding in the the Sierras... what? Climbs, too? Huh. Funny. You know - now that you point it out - I think there are climbs on the island of Nauru. The roads there aren't entirely flat, so they have an upward slope, and by standard non-cycling definition, that would be a climb, right? Ultra-light wheelsets for some climbs on Nauru's roads.

Right.
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Old 04-15-08, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lex
C'mon guys. Reading comprehension is your friend.

If you re-read my post you will note that:

>I did not claim that Florida has mountains.

>I did not claim that one cannot find tougher climbs elsewhere in the country.

>I did not claim that Florida is a climbing mecca.

I was simply correcting a common (and ignorant) misconception that there are no bicycle climbs in Florida.

15% 1-mile climbs, and climbing rates of 100' per mile are NOT flat. Rides like the "Horrible Hundred" or the "Hilly Hundred" with 5000'+ and 4000+ feet of climbing, respectively, in 100 miles are NOT flat.

Florida's 365-day cycling, plus, believe it or not, challenging topography is the reason why national triathlon and USA cycling camps are located in Clermont, Florida (near Sugarloaf).

So, if you all want to be smug and say that all of Florida is "flat" despite 15% grades, be my guest.

But saying it's so, doesn't make it so.

Bob
That is NOT a 15% climb for 1 mile. It might max out at 15% but that would be a very short 15% and honestly I dispute your claim that it is 15%. I've done sustain climbs of 15% for 1 mile and that picture does NOT represent it. Heck, Brasstown Bald averages 14% and well it looks NOTHING like the grade you show.

That is not a climb. it is a bump and you fail to understand the difference between your 700 feet in 7 miles and 10k feet of climbing in 100 miles.

That picture really isn't much.

And BTW, the Hilly 100 really isn't all that Hilly either unless you are some noob or well...ride in Florida. If it is the Hilly 100 in Indiana...it is a two freaking day ride that has about 2000-2300 feet of climbing each day. NOT all that hilly either again...unless you live in Florida. I'm going to get 2000 feet of climbing in my first 10 miles today and I don't consider it hilly.
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Old 04-15-08, 03:10 PM
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There's some climbs here in San Antonio, TX that put Sugarloaf to shame. However, Sugarloaf was one of the hardest races I've ever done. I think it has more to do with the fast pace of Florida road racing combined with the hill finish on each lap. One thing I have noticed though: The pro/1/2 riders here in Texas seem to be more powerful riders than the ones I rode with regularly in Florida. And I didn't ride with slackers either, but two brothers who place in the top 5 in ever FPS race. I can barely hang with the guys out here, but perhaps it has something to do with the climbing involved.
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