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The experiment with chimpanzees and bananas and threads on helmets, carbon etc

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The experiment with chimpanzees and bananas and threads on helmets, carbon etc

Old 04-29-08, 03:03 PM
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The experiment with chimpanzees and bananas and threads on helmets, carbon etc

I remember a landmark experiment. 5 chimpanzees were kept in a cage that had a step ladder in the middle with a bunch of bananas at the top of the step ladder. As soon as the chimps were let in, one attempted to climb the step ladders to reach the bananas. The zoo staff would blast all the chimps (not just the one trying to reach the bananas) with high pressure water hoses as soon as any of them tried to climb the ladder. Pretty soon none of them did. They then replaced one chimp with a brand new chimp. As soon as the new chimp was let into the cage, lo and behold he went straight for the ladder. All the other chimps jumped on him and pounded him into the ground to stop him from attempting to get the bananas. After getting his primate *ss handed to him/her a few times the new chimp no longer tried to reach the bananas.

The original chimps were slowly replaced by new chimps. Each time a new chimp was added, as soon as he tried to climb the ladder he got pounded and pulled down by the other chimps. Finally, all the original chimps were gone and the group consisted of 5 chimpanzees, none of whom had ever been blasted with water. But any time a chimp was replaced with a new one and tried to go for the bananas, the other chimps would pound him/her and drag him down from the step ladder. Keep in mind, the cage now consisted of chimps who had never been blasted with water.

Now, this brings me to my current point. This thread might be enlightening to any newbies who post about people wearing helmets, whats wrong with carbon etc. This is the equivalent of reaching for the bananas. Some people here have experienced the utter morass of stupidity and trolling that such threads devolve into, others are the equivalent of the new chimps, we've never seen this but we know it can't be good so we grab newbies prehensile foot as he scampers up the proverbial ladder towards banana heaven and bring him/her crashing down.

So if you post on people wearing or not wearing helmets or ask whether carbon will explode under sunlight, as you lie on the proverbial cage floor with your ears ringing, a bloody nose and step ladder scrapes on your chin, bear in mind that even though the response may seem unfair, it has a basis in history.
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Old 04-29-08, 03:21 PM
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Also keep in mind that bananas are a good source of potassium.
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Old 04-29-08, 03:41 PM
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Best thread today.
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Old 04-29-08, 03:44 PM
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Monkey see, monkey do...
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Old 04-29-08, 03:47 PM
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Then why do I keep showing up to race?









Ans. - chimps are smarter.
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Old 04-29-08, 04:16 PM
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Interesting observation regarding behavior modification, and a credible argument indeed. Did you actually SEE this experiment yourself, or did you just repeat what was reported to you?


By the way, my ears are still ringing and my nose still bleeding from those other damn chimps on this forum!
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Old 04-29-08, 04:24 PM
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sounds like animal torture to me..

similar to how many BF threads torture my brain!
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Old 04-29-08, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Old School View Post
Interesting observation regarding behavior modification, and a credible argument indeed. Did you actually SEE this experiment yourself, or did you just repeat what was reported to you?


By the way, my ears are still ringing and my nose still bleeding from those other damn chimps on this forum!
I read about it in another context (apparently it is very famous experiment). And yeah, I feel your pain, I've been slammed to the cage floor a few times too in this forum
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Old 04-29-08, 04:31 PM
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Well my wife fell of her horse and hit her head on the ground.. She had a helmet on and I found the crack in the helmet not her head. Should she now ride without a helmet to see if it made a difference?

If anyone falls and hits their head without a helmet on please post. I won't force you to wear one but I reserve the right to harass you. If you don't get hurt you can harass me.
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Old 04-29-08, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by biker128pedal View Post
Well my wife fell of her horse and hit her head on the ground.. She had a helmet on and I found the crack in the helmet not her head. Should she now ride without a helmet to see if it made a difference?

If anyone falls and hits their head without a helmet on please post. I won't force you to wear one but I reserve the right to harass you. If you don't get hurt you can harass me.
I'd never ride without a helmet. I had a bike crash a while ago where I cracked my helmet, I know it saved my noggin. I am a staunch advocate for helmets and consider people who don't wear them clinically insane. However, posting about it on this forum brings out vociferous supporters and critics on both sides of the issue. Its the equivalent of sticking one's hand in a wasps nest.
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Old 04-29-08, 04:38 PM
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It turns out chimps are smarter than humans anyway, so there is no hope for BF.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7124156.stm
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Old 04-29-08, 04:47 PM
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Think for yourself.

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Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
It looks silly when you have quotes from other forum members in your signature. Nobody on this forum is that funny.
Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
Why am I in your signature.
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Old 04-29-08, 04:49 PM
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Three words Banana Cream Pie.
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Old 04-29-08, 04:55 PM
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So what's the answer then, does carbon explode?
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Old 04-29-08, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bad_mojo View Post
So what's the answer then, does carbon explode?
My extensive research has found this. Carbon should not be exposed to temperatures above 65 degrees fahrenheit it will melt. Steel will spontaneously rust and fall apart if it exposed to water. Aluminum will bend or crack if struck by any object larger than an eyelash. Because of these features I own bikes made of all materials.

Carbon for cold rainy days.
Steel for dry days above 65 degrees
Aluminum for my trainer...this way nothing can harm it (I wear eyelash catching goggles to keep it from being damaged).
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Old 04-29-08, 05:09 PM
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https://www.bikeforums.net/6598624-post.html
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Old 04-29-08, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by neurocycler View Post
It turns out chimps are smarter than humans anyway, so there is no hope for BF.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7124156.stm
This link might explain why Botto is quick with his photoshops?
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Old 04-29-08, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by biker128pedal View Post
If anyone falls and hits their head without a helmet on please post. I won't force you to wear one but I reserve the right to harass you. If you don't get hurt you can harass me.
well now that you mention it.. i hit a ped once going 15-20 mph (don't ask) and went down sans helmet, just cycling cap on.

basically fell to the side and skidded it out, my head grazed the ground (i felt it!) but didn't hit the ground, so i was a-ok. that said, i wear a helmet now.
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Old 04-29-08, 06:05 PM
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Personally, I've destroyed about 4-5 helmets (I can't remember anymore) in the past 4-5 years. So... I think I'll continue to wear a helmet.
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Old 04-29-08, 06:21 PM
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so I was doing some sprints a year or so back and a little kid took a sharp turn right in front of my line, I ran into them and fell into a ditch without a helmet on, my carbon bars cracked in half but i was ok. so now i wear a helmet everytime as well. I figure you can only get so lucky
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Old 04-29-08, 06:25 PM
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Chimps love bananas, prefer only CF bikes, and always wear Giro helmets -- what's so hard to understand here??
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Old 04-29-08, 06:32 PM
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a helmet may protect your head against impact, but it will not product you much when your carbon bike blows up.
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Old 04-29-08, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by baiskeli View Post
I remember a landmark experiment...

Internet myth. Never happened.

Maybe you were thinking about *this* movie:



A true Road Monkey would have shaved, though.


It is true that human beings act very much like scared monkeys way too often, though. The internet just lets us share that quality more easily.
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Old 04-29-08, 10:16 PM
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When I was dismounted from my bike by a Toyota, I distinctly remember my head striking and bouncing off the ground by my left temple.

Would I have been unhurt without the helmet, I'm more than happy to not know the answer to that question.
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Old 04-29-08, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DScott View Post
Internet myth. Never happened.

....

It is true that human beings act very much like scared monkeys way too often, though. The internet just lets us share that quality more easily.
Precisely. It's not a real experiment but rather an intellectual exercise designed initially to explain the formation of 'company policy' behaviours. Apllied here, in this context, it doesn't really say anything about the stupidity and futility of newbie arrivals, but rather explains the idiotic pack behaviour often evident in the responses to newbie arrivals.


A couple of better (as in clearer) tellings of the tale:

Monkeys

The apocryphal thought experiment goes something along these lines. Take several monkeys (but not too many!), a cage, and a banana. You will also need a hosepipe and a substantial supply of very cold water. Place half the monkeys in the cage, along with the banana, but make sure the banana requires some effort for the monkeys to obtain. Some writers suspend it from a string, or put it at the top of some steps. Now the monkey torture begins.

One enterprising monkey will head for the banana. Before he gets it, hose down all the monkeys in the cage with cold water. Shortly afterwards, another monkey will try to get the banana, resulting in yet another thorough dousing for the monkey and all his buddies. It takes only a little of this conditioning for the monkeys to develop a conditioned response. Should another monkey have the nerve to make a move for banana nirvana, his fellows will hammer the crap out of him before he gets a chance.

Before the second part of the experiment begins, it's worth taking a look inside the cage. Monkeys are social creatures, but the conditioning has produced an inevitable social breakdown. Each monkey will keep himself to himself, whimpering uncontrollably at the thought of the unseen denizen of the hosepipe. Presumably, each monkey is experiencing the long dark teatime of the soul trying to convince himself that, actually, he never really cared much for bananas anyway.

Once deadlock has been reached, with no monkey daring to even contemplate bent yellow fruit, there's no longer any need for the hosepipe. Instead, our experiment continues by replacing one of the monkeys with the spare ones we left out of the cage, who have been busy entertaining themselves doing the things that monkeys do best. Inevitably, the new monkey makes a beeline for the banana, and gets his reward, a ritualistic beating. The system is now autonomous. When a second replacement monkey is brought in, the last arrival will quite happily join in the ensuing brawl.

From here, it's easy to continue to the logical conclusion. Continue replacing monkeys, one at a time. At each step, the new monkey receives a beating for his banana lust. Monkey see, monkey do - and our new monkey joins the group of sociopaths. Ultimately we end up with a cage full of monkeys, none of whom have ever been sprayed with water, who will all happily pounce on any monkey with banana ambitions. Why do they do it? Because that's the way things have always been done, and the inevitable punchline - that's where company policy comes from.
Monkey Experiment Proves Corporate Policy Process

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result, and all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon the monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.

Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know thatís the way itís always been done around here.

And that, my friends, is how a company policy begins.

Got it now? Doesn't matter if it's Road Cycling, Advocacy & Safety, or any other forum section where newbie bashing occurs whenever a newbie shows up posting certain things. The newbie bashing occurs because the people doing it are mindless sheep!

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