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Do you use/want road disc brakes?

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Do you use/want road disc brakes?

Old 05-20-08, 01:35 AM
  #1  
padawopwop
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Do you use/want road disc brakes?

I want some thoughts and opinions from fellow experienced riders.

The question is,
"If there was a hydraulic road disc brake that was similar in ease of set up and price to mountain hydraulic systems, that INTEGRATED with campy and/or shimano and/or sram, would you be interested in using them, and do you think other people would? And why?"

I am trying to probe, to see if there is any market for them. The intended user would be the year-round trainer/commuter/enthusiast, especially in wet climates.

Please, don't try to educate me about how things work. I'm an experienced professional mechanic and rider of road disc and hydraulic mountain brakes. I just want to know if there is interest.

Thanks

P.S.: I think maybe not everyone is reading this.
People who ride in sunshine all the time need not reply. OF COURSE, regular rim brakes work fine for fair weather riders. I'm looking for people who log miles in the muck. Also, if you haven't ridden disc brakes, your input is not needed. Disc brakes have an indisputable advantage in foul weather. The question is on hydraulic disc road brakes.
Thanks again

Last edited by padawopwop; 05-21-08 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 05-20-08, 01:55 AM
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I'm not sure

isn't the current rim just a big disc and the brakes calipers now anyway?

would it weigh more than the set up we have now? being at the hub with the disc, hardware and the caliper. They have been made before, not sure if it was hydro or cable and not sure if any bike company had them as oem spec.

One of the small builders from europe had a twin front set-up like a motorbike.

I see nothing wrong with the way it is now to be honest.
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Old 05-20-08, 02:19 AM
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i havent read any of this thread, but it might answer some of your questions.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=419452
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Old 05-20-08, 02:42 AM
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The Trek Portland is a road bike commuter with (mechanical) disc brakes.

To answer your question, yes. I love the way my mountain bike's Avid hydro discs respond compared to my road bike's brakes. If they could make them light enough for road use, I'd be very interested.
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Old 05-20-08, 02:54 AM
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no
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Old 05-20-08, 02:54 AM
  #6  
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I'm all for low weight in a bike.

If/when I choose a mountain bike, I'd want one without suspension and without disk brakes for low weight.

Same thing with road bikes. I dont have a problem having hte option of disk brakes for others to use, but I wouldn't favour it's use for myself. I however dont mind using the larger brakes mtbs use (I believe they're called V-brakes?) where the brake pads are longer. Not sure why that's not available on road bikes, possibly due to slim gaps where the brake calipers would fit.
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Old 05-20-08, 03:00 AM
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OP, you will find your answer differing greatly from the thread you also posted in Commuting. Roadies are not wont for change and are happy with their rim brakes. They don't like change unless it makes their bike lighter. Especially the ones who also race. It's all about preference.

I personally have not purchased a road bike for the very reason that they do not come at least disc-ready. I see discs more and more on commuters, like the Scott Sub10 (comes in 26" and 700c) and Marin, the Kona Smoke to name a few, but no proper road bike. It is also my understanding that in the world of Cyclocross racing, discs are forbidden (could be wrong?). Once this changes (and it will), you'll likely see the road community more open to it, but that's merely a hunch.

Bring on the discs.
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Old 05-20-08, 03:08 AM
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My ultegras stop me fine - i have never felt the need or want for disc brakes on my road bikes

My hope 6-pots on my DH bike are there because i want the modulation and power they provide, they probably weigh as much as my road wheelset - even the lightest mountain hydro brakes will be much heavier than a comparably priced set of road brakes - not to mention the need to use a heavier hubs, beefed up fork and rear stays. Plus, hydros are so much harder to maintain than rim brakes, its so much easier to mess about with a set of allen keys than a bleed kit and brake fluid that will wreck anything it comes into contact with.

On a hybrid commuter, mechanical discs are the way to go - weight isnt an issue, and a commuter is more likley to get used in the rain than a carbon fibre race bike where weight is an issue.
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Old 05-20-08, 03:09 AM
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Old 05-20-08, 03:17 AM
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No.

But I am curious how one attaches all that to a super light carbon fork.

Someone mentioned the Portland...in Pcad's original thread, that's the first bike I linked. Special fork with an aluminum crown and dropouts with carbon (stout carbon, I might add) in between.
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Old 05-20-08, 07:41 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Parsnip View Post
My ultegras stop me fine - i have never felt the need or want for disc brakes on my road bikes

My hope 6-pots on my DH bike are there because i want the modulation and power they provide, they probably weigh as much as my road wheelset - even the lightest mountain hydro brakes will be much heavier than a comparably priced set of road brakes - not to mention the need to use a heavier hubs, beefed up fork and rear stays. Plus, hydros are so much harder to maintain than rim brakes, its so much easier to mess about with a set of allen keys than a bleed kit and brake fluid that will wreck anything it comes into contact with.
They don't use brake fluid.
They are not "much heavier" in reality.
How often do you have to bleed them?

To the original question, if the discs were developed further and proven on road bikes, I would be interested. I think Ultegras are good, but @210 pounds, I can get them to fade on a steep descent.

Last edited by big john; 05-20-08 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 05-20-08, 08:02 AM
  #12  
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Nah. Calipers do the job for me just fine.
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Old 05-20-08, 08:05 AM
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I can see using discs on a road bike if you are into cyclocross or frequently ride through a lot of crap and don't want all that crap to get into your brake shoes and grind down your rim. Like any bike toy, there are practical applications. It just depends on your intended use. In most cases, for people who just ride on the road, rim brakes do just fine and situational awareness takes care of the rest (i.e. look out for crap and don't ride through it, etc)...

If you have "special circumstances," of course, you should consider all available toys and determine which is best for those circumstances.
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Old 05-20-08, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
They don't use brake fluid.
They are not "much heavier" in reality.
How often do you have to bleed them?

To the original question, if the discs were developed further and proven on road bikes, I would be interested. I think Ultegras are good, but @210 pounds, I can get them to fade on a steep descent.
They do use brake fluid - DOT 5.1 to be exact - get that on any paint and its gone, get it on your skin and it isnt good - some brakes use mineral oil, which isnt corrosive, but it boils much, much more easilly.

How you can say they are not heavier is beyond me - not to mention the need for extra bracing on the fork and stays

How often do i bleed them - personally, not often enough tbh, but thats not my point, its a pain to do

The cost of R&D would be huge, plus, you would be limiting yourself to a particular brand of frame, fork and wheelset unless everyone was doing it.
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Old 05-20-08, 08:10 AM
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it's essentially mineral oil in the brake lines.
if there was an effective system compatible with carbon fiber forks, lightweight wheels, and campagnolo record controls, it would certainly attract my attention!
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Old 05-20-08, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Toddorado View Post
OP, you will find your answer differing greatly from the thread you also posted in Commuting. Roadies are not wont for change and are happy with their rim brakes. They don't like change unless it makes their bike lighter. Especially the ones who also race. It's all about preference.
I think you will find that we are less likely to want disc brakes because there is less need for them in the "roadie" world than among commuters. We are less likely to ride in conditions that would make any difference in the performance or function of the brakes. Although I do commute on my roadie, its nice where I live 90% of the time.
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Old 05-20-08, 08:22 AM
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I have hydraulic disc brakes on my Specialized Sirrus and like them. If weight was not an issue I think that they would be preferable.
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Old 05-20-08, 09:09 AM
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when I was first searching for a new bike, I thought I might want a cross bike, and for those I probably would've gone for disk brakes. However, I'm not sure that it makes much sense to have them on a road bike... Perhaps people that live in particularly rainy parts of the world might appreciate them, but for my use on the roads, my regular rim brakes are great.
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Old 05-20-08, 09:29 AM
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No.

Forks would have to be redesigned, the rear end would now really be pushing the limit on a 130mm axle. etc...

Things that would get heavier:
1. Lever (need a resevoir)
2. Fork (needs to be beefed up and mounts added)
3. Hubs (need rotor mounts and rotors)

Cable/caliper systems do work very well and are inexpensive and easy to maintain.

Are disc brakes better? Of course they are.

Do we need them on road bikes? For racing...no. For commuting? Sure.

We're a picky bunch though and discs - if marketed incorrectly - will take eons to catch on in the road crowd. It's been tried before and failed.

Then again if Shimano and Campy can sell electronic shifting - another answer to a question no one asked - then the sky is the limit.

I wish you luck.
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Old 05-20-08, 09:54 AM
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There's absolutely no point. My ultegra brakes can lock up my wheels, and I'm sure if I had some better calipers it'd be even easier. If a brake can lock the wheel, there's no benefit to anything stronger unless you want it for riding in the rain (where I'm sure I couldn't lock my wheels.) The problem here is road contact, not brake power. We won't need any stronger brakes on road bikes until we get wider tires, which won't happen.
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Old 05-20-08, 10:19 AM
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again, road racing: no.

Road riding -- how many of you spend THAT much time riding in the rain? Most enjoyable (read non-training, as in racing oriented) rides don't end up in the rain. No need.

Commuting -- it's a different story. If I was seriously commuting, and in Portland, I'd buy a cross bike w/ discs, not a road bike.

Touring -- you'll have to talk to those freaks on your own
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Old 05-20-08, 10:27 AM
  #22  
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I've been riding my new Salsa La Cruz - Steel, cyclo, disc, 29 - and I'd have to say that I like it a lot. Of course, in the mud, it rules.

Weight does not seem to be an issue. The rear is a bit squishy, but I don't think I'd go with hydraulic. I have to ride in a lot of crap around here, it is really nice to have smooth braking 100% of the time.
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Old 05-20-08, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mustang1 View Post
I'm all for low weight in a bike.

If/when I choose a mountain bike, I'd want one without suspension and without disk brakes for low weight.
And you'd quickly find that if you rid eon any sort of technical terrain those who accepted the weight penalty of that equipment would be faster than you. I've ridden rigid bikes with crappy brakes off road a lot, so I have some idea of what I'm talking about. The reason to do it is simplicity and for the challenge, not a performance gain.

Same thing with road bikes. I dont have a problem having hte option of disk brakes for others to use, but I wouldn't favour it's use for myself. I however dont mind using the larger brakes mtbs use (I believe they're called V-brakes?) where the brake pads are longer. Not sure why that's not available on road bikes, possibly due to slim gaps where the brake calipers would fit.
If you see vees as an improvement over calipers, discs are an improvement over vees. That's why even weight weenie XC race bikes use them. If you can stop faster, you can go faster.

Yes, calipers work. But discs could work better, so I would be very interested to see development in that direction.

One comment: rear hubs should probably move to 135mm on road bikes. The road and mountain hubs are interchangeable. As it is, they're frustratingly close, but not quite the same.

Originally Posted by kudude View Post
Road riding -- how many of you spend THAT much time riding in the rain? Most enjoyable (read non-training, as in racing oriented) rides don't end up in the rain. No need.
If some of us decided not to ride in the rain, we wouldn't get to ride very much.
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Old 05-20-08, 10:36 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by M_S View Post
If you see vees as an improvement over calipers, discs are an improvement over vees. That's why even weight weenie XC race bikes use them. If you can stop faster, you can go faster.
I'm currently looking at weight weenie XC race bikes and discs are something that I want... I've always wanted a bike with discs but they were prohibitively expensive when I bought my last mountain bike.
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Old 05-20-08, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Parsnip View Post
They do use brake fluid - DOT 5.1 to be exact - get that on any paint and its gone, get it on your skin and it isnt good - some brakes use mineral oil, which isnt corrosive, but it boils much, much more easilly.

How you can say they are not heavier is beyond me - not to mention the need for extra bracing on the fork and stays

How often do i bleed them - personally, not often enough tbh, but thats not my point, its a pain to do

The cost of R&D would be huge, plus, you would be limiting yourself to a particular brand of frame, fork and wheelset unless everyone was doing it.
O.K., what I should have said is they don't need to use brake fluid, mineral oil would be fine for road use, maybe not DH racing.
I didn't say they weren't heavier, just not "much". There are disc brakes under 275 grams, complete. This could drop quite a bit with R&D.
You're right, the cost of R&D is too high to justify doing it without a substantial market. I would like to see it, though.
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