Stem / Reach fit question
 

I'm still getting my Cannondale Synapse Sport 5 dialed in. I've got the seat right where I want it; even a half centimeter is enough for me to feel something's not quite right. So I'm happy there.

Where I'm having difficulty is in the stem, handlebar height, and reach.

The problem: The hoods feel like a reach for the stars.

The other problem: I seem to be extending my elbows more than I ought to, and that's putting me a little too upright.

The fact is, if I were to get comfortable with a less upright position, the hoods probably wouldn't feel like such a reach to me; I would have plenty of bend in my elbow if I were to maintain a less upright position. But I can't quite get myself into the right position.

I am 6'3", and ride an XL frame, which according to Cannondale's stats is a 58cm frame. Geometry is listed here: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/c...el-8RAY5T.html

Early on, I switched from a 120mm stem with 17 deg. rise to a 100mm stem, same rise. I'm considering going to 90mm, but the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I really just need to limber up a bit so that I can take on a more horizontal position.

Nevertheless, on today's ride (29 miles round-trip, including about 2200 feet of elevation gain, and 2200 feet of descent), my arms felt stretched out, I found I had a tendency during the climbs to extend my elbows so I was in a higher riding position (even using the tops of the bars, during the climb), and also during the climb, found the hoods to be just no fun to use.

The flats and descents are a different story. On the flats, I can ride in the drops for extended periods of time, and it feels great. On the flats, I still don't really like using the hoods. And during descents, the drops and the hoods are both ok.

I feel like I'm rambling here, so I'll just go on to ask for a little advice. Shorter stem? Fiddle with bar height? Leave it as is, and practice touching my toes more often?

Unless you have some wacky morphology you seem to be straying a bit from accepted fit parameters. You could spend years messing with your position and still not get it right or you can go to a good bike fitter and get it right from the get go. Once you get the fit done you have to give your body time to adjust to the position, it'll feel odd at first but give it time. Also you can make small changes but don't stray too far from the fit settings.
Here's a tip for people who want to know if there fit is right, while pedaling the bike in the saddle with your hands on the hoods you should be able to lift your hands up off the hoods (without changing your body position) and keep them hovering above the hoods about an inch and still keep pedaling. This is the quick and dirty way to tell if you fit is in the ballpark.

in a comfortable crusing position, the stem shoud put the tops of the bar in alignment so the front hub. so if the hub is behind the handlebar, get a shorter stem.

Pics?

The "hide the hub behind the bars" thing is a bit general since it relies on the bike have the same front center (BB to front hub) from one bike to another. They're usually close but it doesn't mean the position is necessarily right. Having said that, it's about the roughest starting point I can think of. My hub is well in front of my hub unless I sit up, hold my bars with my finger tips, and yank my head back as much as I can. I can't ride like that but it gets the hub hidden :) To get a top tube long enough to obscure the hub would require my 52 cm frame to have something like a 58 cm top tube (I already use a 13 cm stem). And although that's a dream of mine, to build my own custom carbon frame, it's not anywhere near reality at this point.

On climbs the front of your bike is higher than the rear so it's natural for the hoods to be higher. Compounding this is the fact that many people like to climb from the rearward portion of the saddle - that makes it a longer reach to the bars. Finally, to recruit the strongest muscles you have, you'll tend to bend over more, so the bars seem even higher than normal.

If you think that the hoods are fine on descents and the drops are fine on both descents and flats, I think your bars are a bit too high. I don't know about reach though because it's based on saddle fore/aft.

On the hoods I have the slightest of bend in my elbow but usually it looks like my arm is straight. It's not, but it looks like it. This is somewhat normal in "rest" position when I'm upright. If I'm hunkering down then yes, I have a bend in my elbows.

cdr

At 6'3", I would not expect to hear that you are too stretched out on what is essentially a 58 (if it was a regular Synapse, the sticker wouold say "60"). However, I don't know all your dimensions, so it's impossible to tell.

But...maybe the hoods are in the wrong place on the bars. They can be moved. But your descriptions are a bit mixed, so I'm struggling to be able to tell if you are just not used to riding a bike like this (you state that you are comfortable going downhill, which I interpret to mean you are lower down and relaxing your arms allowing you to "fit" into the bike), or if there's a real fit issue.

Like I said, at your height I would have expected to hear, "I am too cramped", not too stretched out.

Riders here tend to ride with locked elbows. This makes the bike feel odd, but they don't know any better. It also makes your elbows, shoulders, and neck hurt. My point is that I am visualizing you down in the drops with a more relaxed grip going downhill, and what I just described in the flats and climbs.

I'm riding an XL Specialized frame (58cm) and I have the same issue. I'm 6'2 and still feel stretched out. I'm hoping that switching to a slightly shorter stem will sort things out.

Might want to try a 84 or 82 degree stem instead of the 73 degree you have now.

It's impossible to really offer help without specific data and/or pictures, but I have a feeling you're going the wrong way with stem length. Short stems can put you more upright, and can at times cause some shoulder and neck discomfort. Counter intuitively, often times the cure is going to a longer stem and getting more spread out on the bike. It will get you lower and more aero and might open up a can of other worms, but given your basic numbers and frame size you've given, my bet is to go longer with stem and get your hoods properly placed on the bars. But, again, take this with a grain of salt without real details, or pics.

Thanks, I'll try to get some pics posted tonight.

I've got the 100mm stem mounted, and still own the 120mm stem that came with the bike, so I could go back to longer if necessary.

I'm having a similar issue with my new frameset. I work reguarly with a fitter (appointment next week, so I am just self-fitting for now). My current issues:
-I dont think I have my seat dialed in correctly. This is independent of reach issue.
-on my old bike, I have 90mm 17 degree stem. Feels really twitchy on new bike. Also, I fell stretched out as well.

My fitter measures angles: torso-arm, femur-shin... I can tell my torso-arm angle is way off.

I'll just take it easy until i get fitted.

Maybe the reach of your car is too long. Try something short like a 75mm to decrease the distance from your tops to the huds.

The XL Synapse has a 59cm top tube. That's pretty damn long. I'm also 6'3" and had to switch to a bike with a 57cm top tube. I used to have a Specialized with a 59.5cm top tube and I was way too stretched out, even with a short 100mm stem. And I don't have a short torso either.

One way to shorten the reach is to try mounting your levers a bit higher on the bars and angling your bars up slightly, but of course as you inch them up, it will be increasingly more uncomfortable to brake and shift while in the drops. Play around with the hood placement and the angle of the bars though. That might help.

Or get a frame with a shorter horizontal top tube. For me, that was the only solution. I found that shortening up my reach allowed me to more easily get into a more horizontal, aero position too, without feeling stretched out.

Another option would be to ride a smaller version of the Synapse at a shop and see how it feels.

Good luck!

Might be too simplistic, but here's a shot:

Figure out where your hand position makes you the most comfortable. Forget whether you're near the brifters or anything else, and forget about the drops. Just ride and place your hands where they "naturally" fall.

Then, move the handlebars to meet you.

For example, if you feel the most comfortable with your hands just ahead of the forward bend but not quite at the brifters, knocking a couple cm off the stem would bring everything to just the right position.

People around here say that if you need to shorten or lengthen the stem by anything more than 20 mm, the frame is probably the wrong size.