misternapps

Ok, so here's the deal.

I've read through several threads, including the <$750 road bike thread, and am trying to figure out which bike I should get, and how heavily focused I should be on component level.

I'm trying to decide between the Felt z90, Scott s50, and Specialized Allez (triple). All are in the same component level, Tiagra/Sora & aluminum frame w/ carbon fork. I've done a fair amount of research, and gone to 3 of 4 LBS's to try to figure out what to buy (I'm testing the z90 and s50 tomorrow, I've ridden the allez (triple) several times. My buddy just bought an Allez, and is very happy with it (I got him to sell his FSR Stumpjumper to road bike with me and now he's waiting for me to get a bike).

I was really trying to go budget but really can't find anything on craiglist or eBay - I've been looking for a bike for about a month, checking every day.

How important is it, for a first time biker, to get components better than Tiagra(f)/Sora(r)? What are the "main" components I should be looking for other than deraileurs ? I was just thinking about it, and based on my research I've basically just considered deraileur's in the component group ( I think it makes the biggest difference based on shifting and adjustments required but wanted to get the opinion of some more experienced (and just starting out) riders.

What do you guys recommend? I'm going to be riding with a group of two - three friends for starters and may move up from there.

Thanks a lot. Forums are great.

misternapps

Also thought I'd ask if it's appropriate to barter at all with LBS on their pricing at all? A few places have had '07s in stock, and given that '09's are coming out in a month or so full steam, is that appropriate to ask? What is the etiquette?

Geoff326

wats your price range? is it strictly <$750? Personally I would get at least 105, it's definitely worth it. I wouldn't get a triple either, if you need the lower gearing, get a compact double.

I believe it's reasonable to bargain on previous year's old stock.

misternapps

My price range was originally $400, but then I started doing the research and realize that you need to at least get to $750 for a solid entry-level. I really would prefer not to go above $750, but would if I absolutely need to.

I guess my main question is, why would I need to go above Tiagra components for daily use? What exactly necessitates that?

I see you're in alameda. I'm up in santa rosa, not too far away. I see that you use a triple, and I am planning on moving to SF - based on that, would you still recommend a double?

I'm not sure the difference between a double and compact double...

Slackerprince

Older stock is definitely the way to go. You can usually bargain down or get a discount on accessories. The components are probably better, as bike companies have been downgrading progressively.
Good luck, and go for fit first.

S.

Falchoon

I had a Tiagra equipped bike I rode for several years and several thousand km and it was fine for general riding, maybe if you were planning on racing then a better derailleur might be justified.

A compact double has less teeth on the chainwheels and therefore lower gearing.

AngryScientist 

tiagra / sora mix is fine for a beginner. do yourself a favor and make sure the FD is NOT sora, they are notoriously bad. everything else should be fine for getting started and riding many hundreds of miles and then some.

Adgooroo

OP - I don't think you should worry too much about comparing the stock component mix on the bikes you are considering. All will probably come through with good, sturdy parts that are close to each other in quality. The big quality gains would be made by upgrading up a couple of gruppos - from Sora/Tiagra to Ultegra, for example, and you aren't going to get that choice with the stock gear on bikes in this price range.

When you DO get to the upgrade process, regardless of which bike you pick, you should probably consider uupgrading wheels/tires first. That's the change that makes the biggest improvement in weight and performance. You may want a better/lighter seat, too - most entry-level stock seats are too soft (believe it or not) to be comfortable. Once you're in biking shape, you want a firm seat that contacts your sit-bones, not a soft one that lets "everyone" sink in.

Depending upon the stock build, you might eventually switch to a carbon fork and/or seat post, if those parts are aluminum. You can save some weight and reduce some of the harshness of aluminum with either of those upgrades.

As for the question of triple crank vs. double vs. compact: Lots of the entry bikes come with triples because an appreciable portion of the market buying them wants the lower and wider gear range. If you develop into a strong cyclist, it is likely you will fall out of this group, and prefer a double crank - they are more traditional, lighter and a bit simpler when it comes to gear changing and adjustments. The compact version of the double cranks tries to bridge the gap - wide range/lower gears without the extra gear of a triple. For now, though, I'd buy the bike that fits/feels bests, whether it has a triple, double or compact; especially if you're moving to SF area.

After saying all of that, you should be as concerned about FIT as you are about anything else in the choice of bike - and you should hold onto some of your money for necessary accessories - they pile up fast.

Enjoy!

misternapps

The allez has sora FD/tiagra RD, while the s50 has tiagra FD/sora RD. Fit for fit, if everything fits more or less equal on the allez and the s50, should I go with the s50 based soley on the component mix?

PirateJim

My two cents worth; don't make a decision on a bike based on the FD, they are the most inexpensive "major" component to replace. Get a bike that fits right and you are comfortable on. Ride it, then ride it some more. The more comfortable it is, the more you'll ride it. If you keep riding, it won't be your last bike and you can worry about compontents later. If it doesn't fit right, it may well be your last, even if it is tricked out will full Dura-Ace.

6Stringer

I agree with PirateJim. FDs are cheap and getting a Tiagra FD or 105 FD will cost about $30. You can always do that later.

Replacing a crank is a lot more expensive. Decide now if you want a compact or a triple (or a standard double). Most of the entry level bikes around here seem to come with triples.

If you're considering a bike with Sora shifters, make sure you're comfortable with the thumb shifter. Some people just can't get used to it and never like it. If that's you, you'll spend the next couple of years thinking about upgrades. Well...this is cycling, so you'll do that anyway If you think the shifter is going to be an issue, you'll want to look for a bike with Tiagra or better.

shuffles

Order of importance:

1. Fit
2. Brifters
3. Wheels
4. Which bike you will ride the most (color, brand preference, etc.)

Derailleurs are way way down the list, especially the minimal difference between Sora and Tiagra.

lesdunham

+ 1

AndrewP

IF you want to keep pace with a pack of riders, dont use Sora shifters, but otherwise they work precisely and reliably, and also give very easy shifting from the hoods

Avalanche325

Fit is the most important thing once you are into a "real" road bike and not a 30lb looks like a road bike.

I would try for 105. Every level up has improvements and seem to be cost effective until you go from Ultegra to Dura-Ace. There, you get very little bang for your $$$.

I always advise against buying a cheap bike and upgrading. At best you will end up with a $1200 bike and find that you have $2500+ in it. At the worst, you will have a heavy uncomfortable bike and will hate road cycling because of it.

In SF and being new. I would get a triple. (I preach triples unless you are a racer, so take it FWIW) A double will be a tough choice on some of those hills. A compact is a gearing compromise. A triple gives you all the gears you need for going up AND top end speed coming down. (Seach for posts where SPEED RANGES are discussed, a triple is not just more gears) If you end up being a racer, I am sure that you will get another bike and then you will know if a double is right for you. Plus you know, being a MTBer, that the "triples shift poorly" crap you read here is just that ....crap. A little harder to adjust, that's all.

Yes you can ask for a discount, even on a new bike. The worst that can happen is that they say "No". At the $750 range don't expect much of a discount. On last years bike is where you can get a very good deal. However, don't get talked into a better bike that does not fit you right. I would seriously consider last years model. Who really cares what year a bike is anyway?

Go to an on line fit calculator to get an idea of what you should be looking at. After MTBing, a road bike that "feels right" to you will NOT be one that fits right. Remember that you are used to a completely different riding position.

Raerfani

Today I walked into the LBS and told him I would buy this today if he took 150 off and so he did and I walked out with a bike that has exceeded my expectations without emptying my wallet.

EDIT: I did test drive it for 30 minutes though.

sithi

I was picking out a bike just a month ago and went with the Felt Z90.
I know everyone's already said it, but fit really was the most important thing.

I went with the best LBS shop based on service and friendliness.
I had went to other shops and didn't get the best feeling. Test rode an older cannondale with 105 parts, and a Jamis Ventura Sport, and I just didn't like the way the felt after test rides. The 105 parts were tempting, but after getting on a z90 from a shop I felt comfortable with, I knew I wanted to buy it.

Fit was pretty much my determining factor.

Forgot to add that I got it for $630

misternapps

Just wanted to say thanks for all the help. Ended up finding, in my opinion, an excellent deal for an older bike. Picked up an '02 Allez for $350. Needs a tune-up, but felt better than even the newer allez, and for the right price:

It's got 105 & Tiagra's, too!

Pic:

Pugsly

nice. now ride that bike!

jaxgtr

I was riding with a guy recently that picked up a CAAD3 that a LBS had in the attic and did not realize it until they were moving to their new building. He had just walked into the shop right after they pulled it down and when he asked about it, he said they all just kind of looked at each other and the owner said, give it to you for $250. It had full Ultegra, very nice set of Mavic wheels. Talk about good timing.

misternapps

Indeed I did. Went for a 2 mile run in the morning, and then in the afternoon (yesterday) did my first real ride, went with a buddy of mine who is borrowing a madone 5.2sl from a friend.

We did a 22.3 mile ride, mostly flat, but a decent 1 - 1.5mi climb near the end.

Stoked and ready to do more. Giving my legs a day of rest today, then going to try for 25 tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help guys. Still getting used to the danlgers being crunched, but I guess you get used to that, huh?

recursive

Nothing should be getting crunched if your saddle is right/adjusted.

BTW holy stem on that specialized.

Slackerprince

Specialized.
Done.


Slackerprince

misternapps

not sure what that means (?)

AndrewP

Nice bike and with decent pedals. It looks like you have Sora brifters