Lazyrider

get away with it? I say this because I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt but I am not naive. But being he was so marked, how did he get by without the "red handed" nature of these recent situations?
Testing for EPO especially later in his run was advanced enough but yet he never got caught.

My friend at work and other guys who follow cycling emphatically say without a doubt he doped with nothing other than a "gut feeling". But how did he get around it if that was the case? All that BS that his doctors were "better" makes no sense because science is science and it should have shown up. No? I understand that the % in the blood could be manipulated easily, but why are these guys getting slammed so quickly? Test may have improved a bit, but the only thing I would believe is if people were paid to look the other way because if not they would have slammed him.

tekhna

Shhhh...

Spreggy

He is the most tested athlete in human history, with no positives. If you're going to accuse someone, you should have a reason based on reality, not some half-assed roadie friend's gut feelings.

dcbikeguy

yawn

Lazyrider

LOL, can't you extrapolate from my questioning how I feel? I agree, but seems like a lot of these guys are doing it and anyone who is objective would have to question it.

TheJackMove

Indeed. Lazyrider's attemps at trolling are becoming tiresome.

marin1

It is not a gut feeling, it is common sense.
Everyone that he rode off his wheel was doping, it looks like most of his teammates were doping, if you want to believe "he was just that good" hey, good for you.
As for beating the tests, doping is always ahead of testing.
Lance paid attention to every detail in preparation, he always had the best equipment, I'm sure he had the most advanced dope as well.

tollhousecookie

.....they would have slammed him.[/QUOTE]

Funny, (people) still are trying to. I've got no problem with his victories.

Lazyrider

I hear you, but I was wondering if someone really knows the science behind "not getting caught" in the era of tests that can detect EPO and not just blood levels. As LA always stated, it is hard to prove a negative and if he was clean, then that is the unfortunate aspect of all this.

Funny, (people) still are trying to. I've got no problem with his victories.[/QUOTE]

wfrogge

There are several types of EPO (A, B, C, and now D). Thing is with EPO you can microdose and avoid detection 99% of the time and also up until last week the D version of EPO was undetectable. Some riders and teams take it to the next level and will replace their EPO blood for "clean" if their tests show they will get popped in a real test. Pretty easy to avoid detection.

Aside from EPO they really havent started testing for HGH yet. When this happens expect several dozen riders to get busted... My .02


Did Lance dope? I think so as theres no way a natural human with a low crit would be able to not only hang but dominate doped riders with crits at 55% and higher. Its just not possible at the pro level sorry.

sfcrossrider

+1

kirkcubs

I dunno… The thing about Lance is that he has this crazy physiology that almost dictates that he didn't have to dope. Sure he's got an unnatural edge, but he was born with it. Everything from his elongated femurs, to his proportionately oversized and efficient respatory / circulatory system to his freakishly low production of lactic acids. Add to all that, his psychological drive and an ambition is beyond most other's as well. If you were able to engineer DNA to produce the perfect rider (for the Tour at least) it would be him.
You're right, not being suspicious would be a little naive, (who knows what he was up to early in his career) but I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. Also, bear in mind that at the top of his game he was the most tested athlete on the planet. Remember when the Tour decided to "randomly" test riders and he was the first one- uh, yeah. 180+ riders and it just happens to be Lance that goes first. Whatever.

But that's just my two cents. I ride a Scott so I'm really disappointed at today's news about Ricco, but I suppose I can still look back at Lance and say he's MAN!

DrPete 

True.

wfrogge

To my rose colored sunglass wearing friend....


How could a non-doper with a natural crit level beat and dominate doped riders with crits at 55% and higher?

Answer?

THEY CANT!

DeweyJuice

Lance used some $84 CF pump to cheat the tests.

sorry, I just had to :-) :-)

veloGeezer

there wasn't even a test for EPO until 2000. Even as late as 2004 guys were overturning positive test results because the science behind the test was called into question.

Lance said he took EPO. To recover from chemotherapy.

He also never tested positive in competition, but when some test results were made public, he took the lab to court.

He had the best doctors and the best lawyers you can buy.

tollhousecookie

....but I was wondering if someone really knows the science behind "not getting caught"



Not I.

Wested

I'll bet Trek wielded a lot of influence as well. Payed off the right people, etc. Imagine the bad publicity if their top marketing instrument were busted for doping.

What if Tiger or Jordan were caught doping years back? The shame would have cost Nike their marketshare.

Much like Stephen Colbert made Mike Huckabee, LA made Trek the evil empire it is today.

Lazyrider

No, I was raising this issue in light of Ricco's positive and a conversation with a friend at work this am. What is a forum for if not to discuss stuff that it relevant? You questioning my intent is tiresome.

DZA_LA

LOL.........PERFECT

Lazyrider

Some guy on another blog with knowledge of this stuff said Lance was too paranoid to microdose. Not sure what his source was, but it was an interesting read.

kudude

It's like the carbon pump thread was his solo breakaway. No one chased him down and he rode to victory. It was a great feeling.

Now, he tries it again, and again and he's a marked man. It's a little frustrating when you've got no sprint.

marin1

Enough with never failed a test. Ullrich, Basso, and Rasmussen never failed a test.(unless you count extacy)
They must be clean.
He doesn't race anymore, we can't test him, it really doesn't matter if he did or didn't , but common sense tells me that it was possible to beat those doped riders but not dominate them for 7 years with doped teammates that buried themselves just to get you half way up a mountain.

wfrogge

EPO has been around since 91 in the pro ranks. Testing has been around much longer than 2000.

Given his condition at the time taking EPO would only allow him to function. You dont take EPO for once cycle and have it last forever.

He had the best doctors and the best lawyers you can buy.[/QUOTE]

Lance tested positive for a corticosteroid once

photonick

You know, just because you're not excessively accomplished on the bike, doesn't mean other people cannot be.

Just sayin'.