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Red or Record?

Old 08-06-08, 04:38 AM
  #1  
hobojo
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Red or Record?

here's how it is... im really sick of shimano ultegra and want to upgrade to SRAM Red or Campagnolo record. I know how awesome record is, but red is also very appealing for some reason.

All I have been able to find about sram red are bad reviews about dodgy derailleurs and flimsy cranks.

so has anyone ridden sram red and can they tell me how it stacks up after extended use.
thanks
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Old 08-06-08, 04:42 AM
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Record or Chorus would be my choice.. I have been slowing upgrading all my bike to Campy 10.. Just the fact that the shimano hoods alone are just plain uncomfortable would be reason enough for changing.
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Old 08-06-08, 04:54 AM
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What's wrong with the Ultegra stuff? What don't you like about it specifically?
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Old 08-06-08, 05:21 AM
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You've got to give SRAM Red a try. I just love it, smooth shifts, shifts are so quick & positive and I like the sounds Red makes. I really like the feel of the hoods too.

Also I think Campy is over rated.
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Old 08-06-08, 05:21 AM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by 2WheelFury View Post
What's wrong with the Ultegra stuff? What don't you like about it specifically?
it really gets uncomfortable. Other than that I see no reason why Ultegra is bad. Of course in my case, my 13ish year old Ultegra is slowly being worn out and replaced with the 10 speed components. I can't say there is anything wrong with either the oldest Ultegra or the newer ones. I think the OP just wants a reason to upgrade.

But go with Record unless you like Nascar style design, then go with Red since it has huge logos.
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Old 08-06-08, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 2WheelFury View Post
What's wrong with the Ultegra stuff? What don't you like about it specifically?
well if you really need some reasons why shimano is shockingly bad then here they are:

1. gear cables get in the way of tri bars

2. very disposable compared to campy (only lasts at top quality for about 10,000 km, where as campy record can last up to 50,000 kms)

3. hyperglide cassette is awesome for the first 200 km then it is really clunky (campy is more of a positive click to change gears, where as shimano is more of a negative and inacurate thud)

4. integrated rear down gear and brake is annoying because the brake is easily engaged when changing gears

5. if back pedalled all sorts of weird things may happen (skipping gears and losing chain on front ring) and ive been a bike mechanic for 2 years so its the groups wear and tear that have caused this not my gear tuning ability.

so there it is, 5 reasons why i hate shimano.
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Old 08-06-08, 05:41 AM
  #7  
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Everyone, the OP is going away from Shimano, so don't turn this into a Campy vs. Shimano thing. However, it IS open season on SRAM vs. Campy!!

That said, I'm trying to figure out a similar decision, but with less money. Centaur (with Chrous levers) or SRAM Rival?

My sentiments are all the obvious, that pop up in even the most irritatingly ridiculous Campy vs. Shimano debates:

Campy requires a new freehub body at least, and maybe new wheels (depending on how much you're willing to shell). SRAM chainrings have questionable history (I trust 'em, but do you?). Campy's skeleton brakes either look awesome to you or are ridiculous, your decision (I like 'em). Differentiated braking actually is a pretty cool idea for weight saving, but SRAM is still lighter. SRAM looks sort of techno-ey new and Campy has classic lines (for the aesthete in you).

I think you can find SRAM cheaper. Bottom line for me is SRAM is cheaper and I can use my current wheels. I think on both you'll find performance way beyond Shimano Ultegra, especially if you're already sick of it. I think you'll find SRAM and Campy compare really well performance wise, with minor differences (not advantages, mind you). Do you like the thumb lever? Do you like double-tap? For me none of the performance qualities nor the lever differences are making my decision....for me it's purely price and ease.

However, I'll flip it and say that if I had a big inheritance and had no limit on my groupset, then I would get Record.
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Old 08-06-08, 06:14 AM
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I just switched to Campy from Sram just to experiment with it. I really like it so far, however from a practical standpoint for the OP Sram makes more sense as he can use his existing wheels and cassettes. Plus, if you ever plan on racing most neutral wheel support is Shimano compatible. Also, Campy cassettes are VERY expensive.
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Old 08-06-08, 06:27 AM
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No experience with Red, but do ride w/t Campy and personally love it.

However, if I could go back in time I would have only purchased the Record shifters, the rest would be a mix of Chorus and Centaur. Record is way overpriced beyond any real benefit. Instead of pride, I often feel like a sucker having full Record. This is good money I could have put into upgrading my wheels.
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Old 08-06-08, 06:32 AM
  #10  
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If I had to choose I would seriously consider Campy 11-speed even though i am not particularly enamored with the thumb shifters. I use SRAM Force right now, the irrelevant group.
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Old 08-06-08, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
well if you really need some reasons why shimano is shockingly bad then here they are:

1. gear cables get in the way of tri bars
1. who wants clip on aero bars anyway. Aerobars need to be run with bar ends in the aerobars, and Shimano makes a very nice set of them.

2. lots of people use clip ons and STI without issue

3. If it really bugs you wait for Dura Ace 7900.

Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
2. very disposable compared to campy (only lasts at top quality for about 10,000 km, where as campy record can last up to 50,000 kms)
.

I've got a 1998 Dura Ace Group wth a least 50,000 Kms that still runs great.



Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
3. hyperglide cassette is awesome for the first 200 km then it is really clunky (campy is more of a positive click to change gears, where as shimano is more of a negative and inacurate thud)
.

If your cassettes arre deteriorating in 200km, something is seriously wrong.

And I guess that positive click to Campy is why they had to come out with different springs in the brifters for pros who wanted a positive click.



Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
4. integrated rear down gear and brake is annoying because the brake is easily engaged when changing gears.
Lacking a bit in coordination?

Also being able to easily brake and shift simultaneously is quite a nice feature, both riding in traffic (i.e. stop lights, and racing crits.

Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
5. if back pedalled all sorts of weird things may happen (skipping gears and losing chain on front ring) and ive been a bike mechanic for 2 years so its the groups wear and tear that have caused this not my gear tuning ability.
Yet this doesn't happen to others. So of course it has nothing to do with your adjustment.

Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
so there it is, 5 reasons why i hate shimano.
You prefer Campy to Shimano. Your opinion, and one you're entitled to. But to say Shimano sucks is a bit over the top, and reasons such as the cassettes wear out in 200km are just silly.
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Old 08-06-08, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
well if you really need some reasons why shimano is shockingly bad then here they are:

1. gear cables get in the way of tri bars

2. very disposable compared to campy (only lasts at top quality for about 10,000 km, where as campy record can last up to 50,000 kms)

3. hyperglide cassette is awesome for the first 200 km then it is really clunky (campy is more of a positive click to change gears, where as shimano is more of a negative and inacurate thud)

4. integrated rear down gear and brake is annoying because the brake is easily engaged when changing gears

5. if back pedalled all sorts of weird things may happen (skipping gears and losing chain on front ring) and ive been a bike mechanic for 2 years so its the groups wear and tear that have caused this not my gear tuning ability.

so there it is, 5 reasons why i hate shimano.
Or upgrade-itis as it's more commonly known.
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Old 08-06-08, 07:05 AM
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chorus
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Old 08-06-08, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
well if you really need some reasons why shimano is shockingly bad then here they are:

1. gear cables get in the way of tri bars

2. very disposable compared to campy (only lasts at top quality for about 10,000 km, where as campy record can last up to 50,000 kms)

3. hyperglide cassette is awesome for the first 200 km then it is really clunky (campy is more of a positive click to change gears, where as shimano is more of a negative and inacurate thud)

4. integrated rear down gear and brake is annoying because the brake is easily engaged when changing gears

5. if back pedalled all sorts of weird things may happen (skipping gears and losing chain on front ring) and ive been a bike mechanic for 2 years so its the groups wear and tear that have caused this not my gear tuning ability.

so there it is, 5 reasons why i hate shimano.
I don't do tris, so can't comment on #1. Items 2-5 are total nonsense, though. If you are a mechanic and are having the problems discussed in 2,3,5, then you need some more lessons at mechanics' school. And if you are having the problem mentioned in 4, then it's a miracle you can actually ride a bike at all.

Last edited by Coyote2; 08-06-08 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 08-06-08, 07:26 AM
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09 campy... red is light for sure, but it's noisy.
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Old 08-06-08, 07:54 AM
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Why not just switch out the brifters and run a JTek Shiftmate?
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Old 08-06-08, 08:07 AM
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Heh - just got my Record cranks this morning after my last post. Woot.
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Old 08-06-08, 08:12 AM
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Nothing is wrong with Ultegra. It's widely considered one of the better groups out there for performance vs value.

I think the real issue here, and has been pointed out already, is that the OP is trying to justify switching to a new, have-to-have-to-be-cool group.

If you want to switch, switch. Don't try to justify it with half-truths.
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Old 08-06-08, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
chorus
My thoughts exactly. If you really want to go nuts, SuperRecord 11 speed. Don't see much sense in Record 10.
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Old 08-06-08, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
well if you really need some reasons why shimano is shockingly bad then here they are:

1. gear cables get in the way of tri bars

2. very disposable compared to campy (only lasts at top quality for about 10,000 km, where as campy record can last up to 50,000 kms)

3. hyperglide cassette is awesome for the first 200 km then it is really clunky (campy is more of a positive click to change gears, where as shimano is more of a negative and inacurate thud)

4. integrated rear down gear and brake is annoying because the brake is easily engaged when changing gears

5. if back pedalled all sorts of weird things may happen (skipping gears and losing chain on front ring) and ive been a bike mechanic for 2 years so its the groups wear and tear that have caused this not my gear tuning ability.

so there it is, 5 reasons why i hate shimano.

With all you had to say there i would not let you put a wrench on one of my bikes.
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Old 08-06-08, 08:26 AM
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I would say try them out because both brifters (SRAM/Campy) are diff. from shimano. A lot of people who used Shimano find the thumb-shifter on campy to be a bit awkward. So regardless of which shifts better, try them out because you might not like the way you shift on them.
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Old 08-06-08, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by hobojo View Post
well if you really need some reasons why shimano is shockingly bad then here they are:

1. gear cables get in the way of tri bars

2. very disposable compared to campy (only lasts at top quality for about 10,000 km, where as campy record can last up to 50,000 kms)

3. hyperglide cassette is awesome for the first 200 km then it is really clunky (campy is more of a positive click to change gears, where as shimano is more of a negative and inacurate thud)

4. integrated rear down gear and brake is annoying because the brake is easily engaged when changing gears

5. if back pedalled all sorts of weird things may happen (skipping gears and losing chain on front ring) and ive been a bike mechanic for 2 years so its the groups wear and tear that have caused this not my gear tuning ability.

so there it is, 5 reasons why i hate shimano.
1. OK.

2. "Incorrect"

3. If you don't like thuds, then why do you want to go to Red or Campy?

4. You should learn how to shift

5. You should also learn how to maintain your bicycle.
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Old 08-06-08, 08:51 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ravenmore View Post
Heh - just got my Record cranks this morning after my last post. Woot.
Sorry to hijack. Did I see a post where you were having trouble adjusting your Campagnolo RR Der? If so, PM me. I have a few tips that could solve the problem.

To th OP: Go Campy or go home!
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Old 08-06-08, 09:30 AM
  #24  
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A few things that need to be cleared up:

Red cranks are as stiff or stiffer than Record UT or Dura-Ace.

Red chainrings are freaking fine.

Red is still being tested by everyone to see if it'll crap on itself after the usual Campy overhaul/Shimano replacement period.

You can get an entire SRAM Red build kit from Colorado Cyclist for a few hundred dollars more than an 8 piece Campagnolo Record group.

Get Record.

Or else.
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Old 08-06-08, 09:33 AM
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