Originally Posted by umd (Post 7333416)

Ok so I quickly scanned the thread and didn't see the answer so I apologize if I am repeating. The thing to realize is that there is a difference between POWER and EFFICIENCY. You can do a lot of things to generate maximum power for short periods of time that aren't very efficient. For general riding, efficiency is more important. For racing, sometimes maximum power is more important.

Originally Posted by bent eagle (Post 7334926)

Thanks! Great point about the 130 or so years of research. I'm guess I'm just trying to understand the "why" question, so that I can more enthusiastically embrace the "how" of it all.

Any comments on my question about the head rocking from side-to-side?

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by waterrockets (Post 7335840)

This thread is too long for the subject. I stopped reading around post 18.

Pro sprinters do intentionally swing the bike. They are increasing pedal force by pulling the bars away from the pedal during the downstroke. It's like how you would tear carpet once a rip has started, using a foot and a hand.

It's just plain more powerful to swing the bike if you do it right. Here's a video I added a while back, with Robbie illustrating the technique. Notice how he pulls away with each pedal stroke.

Originally Posted by Anarchy4ever (Post 7336257)

Am I understanding this right?

1. rocking the bike does help generate more speed, but it is less efficent.
2. It is less efficent for two reasons,
A. your using additional arm muscles to generate the back and forth movement. which means your wasting energy, because this back and forth movement has no down force. and it is the down force that propels the bike.
B. the side to side motion generates ALOT of friction on the tires. this i because you are riding the bike on an angle. If you dont beleve me try holding your bike sideways for a few seconds the next time you ride, and see if you dont eithier start slowing down, or even here the tires rubbing against the ground. This friction creates alot of drag, thus reducing your overall gain even further.
3. Personally, I have been able to sprint at very high speeds, without rocking my bike. I still use alot of arms to keep the bike stable while standing. but I am concentrating all my power too my legs.

Originally Posted by Anarchy4ever (Post 7336257)

Am I understanding this right?

1. rocking the bike does help generate more speed, but it is less efficent.
2. It is less efficent for two reasons,
A. your using additional arm muscles to generate the back and forth movement. which means your wasting energy, because this back and forth movement has no down force. and it is the down force that propels the bike.
B. the side to side motion generates ALOT of friction on the tires. this i because you are riding the bike on an angle. If you dont beleve me try holding your bike sideways for a few seconds the next time you ride, and see if you dont eithier start slowing down, or even here the tires rubbing against the ground. This friction creates alot of drag, thus reducing your overall gain even further.
3. Personally, I have been able to sprint at very high speeds, without rocking my bike. I still use alot of arms to keep the bike stable while standing. but I am concentrating all my power too my legs.


I am still pretty new to road bikes so can someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Originally Posted by Anarchy4ever (Post 7336257)

Am I understanding this right?

1. rocking the bike does help generate more speed, but it is less efficent.
2. It is less efficent for two reasons,
A. your using additional arm muscles to generate the back and forth movement. which means your wasting energy, because this back and forth movement has no down force. and it is the down force that propels the bike.
B. the side to side motion generates ALOT of friction on the tires. this i because you are riding the bike on an angle. If you dont beleve me try holding your bike sideways for a few seconds the next time you ride, and see if you dont eithier start slowing down, or even here the tires rubbing against the ground. This friction creates alot of drag, thus reducing your overall gain even further.
3. Personally, I have been able to sprint at very high speeds, without rocking my bike. I still use alot of arms to keep the bike stable while standing. but I am concentrating all my power too my legs.


I am still pretty new to road bikes so can someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Originally Posted by umd (Post 7336009)

WR, I think what the op was asking, was why isn't rocking the hips outside of sprinting good if rocking the bike while sprinting is, and why is it bad if he feels more powerful...

Originally Posted by gregf83 (Post 7336344)

The bike moving from side to side is not inefficient.

Originally Posted by roadwarrior (Post 7332963)

go to Carmichael's website and get his sprinting workout DVD. They are working out on trainers and it's all explained there.

Cavendish, McEwen, and Alijet all rock their bikes. So did Cippolini. They are pulling and pushing for greater speed, but that's also explained in the DVD. Proper positioning, arms as well, in there.

Originally Posted by ZXiMan (Post 7333101)

When I'm sprinting to close gaps or respond to accelerations in the peloton, I'm in the drops and standing, but I conserve energy (or btter yet my legs) by spinning an easier gear and NOT using my upper body.

Originally Posted by bent eagle (Post 7333678)

Thanks for the idea. The affore-mentioned coach tried that right away though, and the hip-tilting didn't go away. If I remember correctly, he said that tilting could be a sign that the seat is too high, but that wasn't it in my case.

Originally Posted by Szczuldo (Post 7333759)

then it's your pedal stroke, your hips should not be rocking back and forth when you are on the saddle.

Originally Posted by Szczuldo (Post 7333759)

Wait...are you mashing? if so then your probably moving your entire body so you can put enough force on the pedals and in doing so you are making yourself less efficient. Maybe try spinning a larger gear and see what that does for you.

Originally Posted by nachomc (Post 7333039)

Who doesn't? HTFU

Originally Posted by umd (Post 7336009)

WR, I think what the op was asking, was why isn't rocking the hips outside of sprinting good if rocking the bike while sprinting is, and why is it bad if he feels more powerful...

Originally Posted by umd (Post 7339225)

I've been giving this thread a lot of thought and did some experiementation on my ride to work this morning...



I agree with this, but I would offer than for an attack you want maximum power for at least a brief moment and would use the whole body to get a clean separation and then settle into a more sustainable rhythm still focusing on a higher power output at the expense of some efficiency for another short period of time (but longer than the initial acceleration) until a decent gap is established. After that point, efficiency becomes the most important thing because you have to basically outlast everyone and you cannot afford to waste any energy.





I used to rock my hips a lot and people much more experienced than myself would constantly tell me that I needed to lower my saddle. I tried lowering it but it was not comfortable and I still rocked, and they still told me I needed to lower it. So I put it back up and instead worked on my pedal stroke. I now have a smooth(er) stroke and the same people have told me that it's good that I finally dropped my saddle, even though it is still at the same place as before :p

There are a few things that I did that really helped. First, is just to be aware of it. Second, I was stuck in my little ring for a while due to some FD issues (it worked but was unreliable, and would often not shift). That forced me to spin fast to keep up. 30mph+ in the little ring. You cannot rock your hips at that cadence, it just doesn't work. Finally, riding with no hands helps, because it makes you acutely aware of your pedal stroke and any bouncing caused by rocking your hips will make the bike swerve all over the road. Even more so, climbing with no hands really makes you focus on it because you have to put a lot of power through the pedals but you still have to be smooth.



It's been a while since I'd been "cured" of that particular affliction, so this is where my experiments this morning came into play. I found that I could put out more power (i.e. speed) at the same cadence by shifting to a higher gear and rocking my hips as the OP describes. In effect, mashing down the pedals, using my entire body through my hips to put my weight down on the pedal. However, I could put out more power/speed at a lower HR by increasing the cadence, and maintaining an even pedal stroke without rocking.

OP, you can chose to listen to everyone here and your coach, or you can believe that you are still correct. Your call :thumb: