55/Rad

I realize there are varying opinions as to saddle height but what are the relative differences in performance and comfort with a lower vs. a higher saddle?

Reason I ask is that the "experts" - Bicycling magazine, various fitting websites, etc. are telling me my saddle is over an inch too high. I am just getting back into riding after 13 years off and the pain I feel in my legs seems to be the "good" kind from riding and working the muscles rather than from an improper fit. I did get professionally fit at my LBS and all the other specs from these "experts" were dead on to how I'm set up.

I hesitate to change it but still, if it could be better......

55/Rad

karesz3

I think even a few millimeter change could alter your performance. I found that a saddle set too high will fatigue your leg muscles much more since your hamstrings will fire without enough rest. I would set it slightly lower than you may think is appropriate. No scientific formula will replace personal experience. Keep making small adjustments while riding the same route and you will soon find the sweet spot.

Cheers

RiPHRaPH

don't forget the fore and aft position. this can stress the hammies as much as saddle height.

55/Rad

Ok, I've got my KOPS, arm-to-torso angle, elbow-to-knee gap, reach and stem length, and even a reasonable stem vs. saddle height. My fore and aft on the saddle is adjusted to KOPS. All of these are "locked in" to what the so-called experts recommend, sans Keith Bontrager.

My seat height is adjusted 3.5 cm too high according to these formulas. (75.67 cm vs. 79 cm) But it doesn't feel bad. I just don't know if it's optimal for the kind of riding I want to do - aggressive sport leading eventually to centuries - a combination of performance and comfort.

These formulas say the knee flex should be between 25 and 35 degrees. But they say nothing about the proper foot-to-pedal angle for which this should be measured. Toe down, straight or heel down affects the knee flex angle immensely.

I realize that finding the best height for me or anyone is a matter of time and experimentation. (Thanks Karesz3!) But this process can be made a bit simpler if it starts from a general place of accepted knowledge, rather than someplace random. I also know I'm going to start lowering the saddle in increments of 1/2 cm and backing the saddle out 1 cm - but...

What can be expected in terms of perceptible differences in performance vs comfort for these adjustments?

Thanks again.

55/Rad

ImprezaDrvr

Speaking from my own experience, and nothing more, I have found that I prefer my saddle to be a bit lower than your aforementioned experts might suggest. This revelation came after years of having my saddle too high. Why the switch? When I first started riding however many years ago, I was a spinner. This was largely due to the fact that a shop sold me too small of a bike (I know it was my fault, but still, I was a high school kid.) I got used to spinning on 172.5mm cranks. After a couple of bikes, I ended up with my trusty Cannondale and rode it for four years wondering most of the while why I had stopped spinning and started mashing more. I attributed it to my body type. But when I got my new roadie bike last fall, the geometry was different enough to justify playing with positioning. Through months of trial and error, making 1-2 cm adjustments, I have found that my spinning, toes flat or slightly pointed towards the pedal form leads me to a slightly lower saddle position.

This kind of shows you how individualized it is. While the 'experts' in the field are great for giving you a starting point, remember that they're not riding in your body with your riding style. I'd play around with different positions if I were you, just to see how your body and riding style match them. But, again, small changes and a decent amount of time with each change. Otherwise, you're liable to cause a problem somewhere that'll take you off of the bike.

Good luck!

brokenrobot

I suspect that saddle style can change things a bit, too... I commute on two nearly-identical bikes, one with snow tires and one with smooth. I discovered a week ago that according to the "fit kit", I've been riding with my saddle nearly two inches lower than I ought to... After raising the saddles on both bikes, I find that I have MUCH more power, and am perfectly comfortable on the one that has an old-school Avocet racing saddle on it... The fair-weather bike, with a new ergo saddle (which *used* to be the comfy one!) causes me back pain at the new height, so I'm going to have to lower it again, at least until I get more flexible

Since the only differences in the two bikes are smooth-vs-treaded tires and the different saddles, I strongly suspect that my optimal saddle height varies by saddle type!

-chris

keithnordstrom

i have been riding with a saddle that the experts said was too high for years. recently i ordered a custom frame, and had to go through some fitting again - and another expert told me again that my saddle was too high.

so i tried to make the switch and ride with the saddle height they recommended. i did so for 3 months, but it still doesn't feel right - i feel cramped, and feel like i am lacking in some power. so i've raised it again, more to a middle ground than before - but it's still about 1.5 cm higher than they suggested (rather than 3).

so far, this height feels comfortable. and i've never had knee pain issues (i'm 33).

btw, there's a keith bontrager article about the art of fitting bikes posted somewhere on these forums ... i found it pretty good reading.

Cadillac

I am no expert, but I have been riding for 50 years. I find that the best saddle height can be obtained by sitting on the saddle with your heel on the pedal so that the leg is perfectly straight. The crank arm should be in a straight line with the seat tube. Then, when you click into your pedal, so that the ball of the foot is over the pedal axle, your leg will have the proper bend.

Once you think you have it right, you should get off the bike, walk around a bit, then try it again. For some reason, the measurement might change. Readjust as necessary.

roadbuzz

IMO, there isn't one right answer. That's why there's more than one opinion on what is the right saddle height, and why there's so much variation even just in the responses in this thread.

My *personal* starting point is the Greg LeMond advice... with leg straight and crank all the way down, your heel should be a little above the pedal. How much depends on how much you ride. And it has to be adjusted to compensate for stack height, if the cleat/pedal combination adds much. If your butt is rocking side-to-side when you pedal, no argument... too high. Otherwise, maybe not. Try experimenting some. Lower your saddle a little, say 1/8" or 1/4" and stick with it for a couple of weeks. Better or worse? If better, lower a little more and repeat. Otherwise, go back up some.

Some of the variables.... if you're more of a spinner, a relatively lower height works better. Mashers tend to use a higher position. Don't stress over foot to pedal angle. You can look at the peloton and see this, too, is a personal matter. Use what feels natural. If it changes over time, adjust accordingly. Simple.

Portis

Er, Uh........I think you might be an expert.

slide13

I agree with the other posters about the heel on the pedal. With cranks inline with seattube your heel should just barely touch (or just barely hover above) the pedal. This is with your foot at a natural, relaxed position and your hips level! I see many people with there seat to high claim that they have the perfect bend in there knees but it's do to them rocking there hips with every pedal stroke. I actually suffered from that for a while before I discovered my error.

Saddle height is not a perfect science, that is just what works for me and obviously many others. Give it a try and ride for a while with your saddle at the height. When I first made the switch it felt too low, but now it feels perfect.

55/Rad

So I lowered my saddle 2 cm from 79 to 77 (top of saddle to center of crank bolt) leaving me still 1.5 cm too high. Then I went on a 30 mile spin.

Everything felt fine and not much different than usual. I did tire a bit sooner than I expected, but that could be due to a variety of reasons.

One thing lowering the saddle did do for me - I can now ride my rollers. I bought them a couple weeks back and had been struggling with them. Lowered the saddle and voila....

55/Rad

cycletourist

It takes a lot of riding to get your saddle position dialed in. When I first got serious about cycling I rode a saddle height of 85 cm with my knee directly over the pedal spindle. But over the last ten years my saddle position has gradually moved back and down. Now I have a saddle height of 78 cm and ride with saddle shoved all the way back.