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I've gone threadless (via an adapter)

Old 09-30-08, 07:01 PM
  #1  
AndyK
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I've gone threadless (via an adapter)

I wanted to get nice Belgian drop bars and figured it was time to experiment and modernize my "antique" looking Cinelli. Installed the goodies tonight! My problem is it seems the brake levers are much farther away and harder to reach from the drops than they were on my old Cinelli 64 Italian bend bars? I am again finding that the older Campy Ergo brifters were made for older style bars with a different shape compared to modern ones. I found the same thing when I switched to Ergo bars, but thought the reach to the brake levers was increased by the Ergo bar shape. These new Newons are the classic bend. Here are a few photos:



I haven't tried the higher rise of the newer bars, but if the brake levers are hard to grab, I have bigger issues then bar height, right?
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Old 09-30-08, 07:06 PM
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might want to try some shims for your levers to reduce reach.
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Old 09-30-08, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AEO View Post
might want to try some shims for your levers to reduce reach.
Hmmm, where do they have these shims? Do they simply stop the levers from returning all the way back - like a reverse quick release?
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Old 09-30-08, 07:21 PM
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You turned a nice looking classic bike into a monstrosity. Stem alone has a paragraph of words on it.
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Old 09-30-08, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by operator View Post
You turned a nice looking classic bike into a monstrosity. Stem alone has a paragraph of words on it.
Yeah, it does kind of stick out!
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Old 09-30-08, 07:32 PM
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for that style campy, I heard the shim fits into the top part lever body where it contacts the bars.
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Old 09-30-08, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by operator View Post
You turned a nice looking classic bike into a monstrosity. Stem alone has a paragraph of words on it.
I wouldn't say monstrosity but I'm definitely not a fan of threaded... (Edit: should have said "threadless"...)

To each his own...

Last edited by Jerseysbest; 09-30-08 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 09-30-08, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerseysbest View Post
I wouldn't say monstrosity but I'm definitely not a fan of threaded...

To each his own...
X2, it's not a monstrosity. I'm going for the threadless conversion too, though I went with the 26mm bar clamp, as that fits betters with the narrow tubing.
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Old 09-30-08, 09:34 PM
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No problems with wanting to try a different set of bars, but the threadless is not an upgrade on that nice bike. put the quill back on, IMO.

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Old 10-01-08, 12:12 AM
  #10  
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How much do you want for the old bars and stem?
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Old 10-01-08, 01:30 AM
  #11  
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My levers are even more extreme than that but I have long fingers so can reach them in the drops. My bars are set up more for the tops where I ride most of the time. The Newton shallows you have pretty friendly to lever access in the drops. You can shim the top of the lever body as mentioned which will cant down the lever closer to the bar if you are digit length limited Other option is '09 Campy levers are redesigned with this issue in mind...lever is more accessible in the drops. The thing to keep in mind with drop bar ergos is it is all about compromise...top, hood and drop comfort is normally a tradeoff and should be set up according to priority. The trick is to optimize all three positions with some tradeoff to each. I personally for example don't like the Deda Newton Shallow bar because it has little forward reach which compromises ramp length behind the hoods leaving less room for the heel of my hands. I have tested those bars. Problem with greater reach of say Newton Anatomics of 95 versus 80mm reach is now there is a greater disparity between top and hood reach...tops being closer when choosing a stem to place the hoods in the proper position. All about compromise. Since I spend most of my time in the hoods, that is the position I want to feel the best...with tops second and drops third which are a hint stretched out on my bike...not bad at all as I want a light stretch to enlist my glutes when going for maximum power. My bars are rotated a bit up which puts the ergolevers in the most comfortable hood position. Tradeoffs.

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Old 10-01-08, 03:50 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
My levers are even more extreme than that but I have long fingers so can reach them in the drops. My bars are set up more for the tops where I ride most of the time. The Newton shallows you have pretty friendly to lever access in the drops. You can shim the top of the lever body as mentioned which will cant down the lever closer to the bar if you are digit length limited Other option is '09 Campy levers are redesigned with this issue in mind...lever is more accessible in the drops. The thing to keep in mind with drop bar ergos is it is all about compromise...t
Thanks, it makes sense that you can't have everything with Ergo bars - but my bars are the Newton Deep Drop Belgian style, with nice flats before the hoods (non-ergo).

I really don't like the way the larger bars stick out, and the fact that the stem looks out of place on a classic. I'll try out this setup, and if I like the shorter stem and deep drop bars, try to find a 90mm quill and go back to 26.0 bars.

This is an expensive hobby, right? Just don't tell my wife!
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Old 10-01-08, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyK View Post
Thanks, it makes sense that you can't have everything with Ergo bars - but my bars are the Newton Deep Drop Belgian style, with nice flats before the hoods (non-ergo).

I really don't like the way the larger bars stick out, and the fact that the stem looks out of place on a classic. I'll try out this setup, and if I like the shorter stem and deep drop bars, try to find a 90mm quill and go back to 26.0 bars.

This is an expensive hobby, right? Just don't tell my wife!
My bad on the Newton's Deep Drop...better bar IMHO than the Shallows with round hook that Lance used to ride...if you are running Campy Ergolevers. Shimano levers work better with a shorter ramp of the Newton Shallows because they have a large finger hold behind the larger stumps. As to the old school aesthetic which I will always prefer to the modern threadless stem...modern threadless stems are structurally better but not nearly as elegant. For me your bike would look better with a quilled stem. Keep in mind you can run a quilled 26mm dia stem clamp with a 25.4mm bar with a small shim. Really a lot of different permutations. Another classic bar that is raved about is the Nitto noodle which looks very old school but has a nice deep hook with constant radius.
The simple reason why anatomics are preferred with Campy ergolevers is a much tighter radius up at the top of the hook which allow the top of the drop bar hook to be more horizontal for a longer heel pad ramp behind the hood as discussed which is more comfortable to guys like me. New school really is 3 hand positions and old school was 4 with the levers/hoods placed more down the front of the hook which stretchs out a rider if adopting the lower handlebar convention today. At the end of the day...aesthetics and how you set your bars up is vastly a personal decision and most top riders set theirs up distinctively.
If you use eBay to buy and recycle bike parts the hobby of bike building and experimenting isn't too expensive and a lot of fun.
PS: Below is how I am currently running my bars. I could run them a bit higher say and rotate them down a bit but then I lose the coveted shaking hand position in the hoods. The hoods melt into my hands in this position and notice the long ramps behind the hoods. I am fine in the drops even with rotated bar as I can really stretch out and get aero and get my glutes into the pedal stroke. Also included cycling great Tom Boonen's lever/bar position who also has big hands and prefers this position. Notice how his levers jut forward...no problem if you have long fingers accessing the levers from the drops.
Lastly, if you do decide to shim the top of your lever base to rotate the levers more into the bar, you will create an angled hood land which maybe a bit less comfortable. Tradeoffs.
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Old 10-01-08, 07:48 PM
  #14  
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Thanks Campag for a most informative response! Nice setup you have! I have to think my '95 Ergo levers are shaped differently, with a longer reach than the modern version. When I had them on the Cinelli B Groove ergo bars a few months back, I could not reach the brake lever from the drops - and I have long fingers:


The Nitto Noodle bars are interesting in that they swoop back, lessening the reach (a good thing for me). They weigh a ton though. Deda makes the same deep drop bars in 26.0 - If I could find a nice Cinelli XA in 90mm, I could go back to the classic look. But my older brifters would still have the lever reach issue, I bet. I like a flat ramp up to the hoods that non-Italian bend bars offer. But I have yet to ride my threadless stem and deep bars. Tomorrow morning I'll give it a try and see if the shorter stem and deep bars are more for me.

Sooner or later I will either upgrade to 10-speed and more modern levers to go with modern bars, or, go back to older bars and say the hell with it! Ebay is a good place for used gear, if you can find your size (and don't get out bid).

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Old 10-04-08, 12:35 PM
  #15  
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Just for kix, I took a photo of my nude Cinelli 64 bars. Now I see how the ramp goes almost straight down on these bars! So, maybe a Ritchey Classic bend in "Italian" style wouldn't be as severe as my older Cinelli bars? I really need less reach than 95mm, and would go back to my quill stem, if I can get 25.8 bars into the 26.0 stem without a shim.

Look at these things - like diving off a cliff:

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Old 10-04-08, 02:24 PM
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You didn't go threadless, you went quill-less. You still have a threaded headset.

IMO it looks better with the quill stem......not that you care what I think, nor should you.
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Old 10-04-08, 05:42 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by The Carpenter View Post
You didn't go threadless, you went quill-less. You still have a threaded headset.

IMO it looks better with the quill stem......not that you care what I think, nor should you.
No, you are right. I decided I will find a 26.0 bar that is more to my liking, and go back to the Cinelli quill stem. Probably going to go with a Ritchey WCS classic road, since my first real road bike was a '75 Ritchey custom built by Tom. My uncle gave it to me in '90 - beauty of a hand brazed frame! Just too big for me. So getting Ritchey bars would be full circle, kind of.
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Old 10-06-08, 06:24 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by AndyK View Post
No, you are right. I decided I will find a 26.0 bar that is more to my liking, and go back to the Cinelli quill stem. Probably going to go with a Ritchey WCS classic road, since my first real road bike was a '75 Ritchey custom built by Tom. My uncle gave it to me in '90 - beauty of a hand brazed frame! Just too big for me. So getting Ritchey bars would be full circle, kind of.
Might just be me... But why not just ride it as is? I don't think the 2 people who will notice your conversion out on the street are going to care much...
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Old 10-06-08, 07:30 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by AndyK View Post
Just for kix, I took a photo of my nude Cinelli 64 bars. Now I see how the ramp goes almost straight down on these bars! So, maybe a Ritchey Classic bend in "Italian" style wouldn't be as severe as my older Cinelli bars? I really need less reach than 95mm, and would go back to my quill stem, if I can get 25.8 bars into the 26.0 stem without a shim.

Look at these things - like diving off a cliff:

A tip Andy is...the big fall off up top as you mentioned a big deal for many...it is for me. Shimano users however seem to be less plussed about this including Lance who spends way more time in the saddle than we do and is about as discriminating about position as they come. Shimano hoods are more accepting of the downward slope because of their relative size as a perch for you hands. To me...having tried this position with Campy...it is downright uncomfortable because it rotates my hand downward and I lose the ergo friendly shaking hand position. This also applies to other compact bars out there...a bit friendlier to the large Shimino hoods.
Below is Lance's Madone with Deda round bar which illustrates where he puts his Dura Ace levers...down the waterfall of the bar...no flat transition... which is OK because the heel of his hand fits with the downward slope of the bars because of the large hood size...also note old school Eddie set up...common to place the hoods down the front of big hooks in his era. Doing so differentiated a third position more removed from the tops and deeper drops:
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Last edited by Campag4life; 10-06-08 at 07:44 AM.
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