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Fast bike for training

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Fast bike for training

Old 10-22-08, 03:08 PM
  #1  
mustang1
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Fast bike for training

IMO a light bike can be made to go faster than a heavier bike. So for example an Allez with stock wheels wont be as fast (or easy to ride?) as one with Fulcrum 0.

If the bike is used for training, is it better to have heavier wheels to make you work out more in the same amount of time than if you had lighter wheels... or is it better to have lighter wheels that makes the bike go faster and that in turn gives you a better workout ?
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Old 10-22-08, 03:23 PM
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adding the weight won't help your cycling. If it did, you would see pros training with the heaviest bikes they could or putting on weight vests. The reality is your body will adjust to the extra weight of the wheels pretty quickly. The only reason to have a "Training" wheel/tire set is to save your really light, expensive, carbon, etc wheels for those weekend club rides or the local crit. In full disclosure I only have one set of wheels and I use them for everything.
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Old 10-22-08, 03:28 PM
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Going faster doesn't make it a better workout. Using a heavier bike doesn't make it a better workout. Working harder makes it a better workout. If you are by yourself it really doesn't matter. If you are with a group, it may matter a little more. As long as your speed is controlled by the group, using a bike that makes you work harder will give you more of a workout. BUT if it is the type of group that you can dictate the pace by attacking, riding on the front, etc. then again it doesn't matter. On the flip side, if you are having a hard time even keeping up with the group, a lighter/faster/whatever bike may help you with that, so that you can get a better workout it.
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Old 10-22-08, 03:29 PM
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I think a better training device would be to train with a backpack on. I commute several days to work and carry my clothes in a backpack. When it comes to my weekend ride I feel a lot lighter and faster without the backpack. Unfortunately my commute is a solo ride and the weekend ride a group ride, so I have no results to compare the two rides and confirm.

I think it would make it good training so long as you push yourself. I mean if you can ride 20 mph without the bag, then tell yourself you need to ride 20 mph with the bag. Don't make it an excuse for riding slower. Keep pushing yourself.
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Old 10-22-08, 03:37 PM
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I agree about the backpack, I don't think the wheels would matter at all.
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Old 10-22-08, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
I think a better training device would be to train with a backpack on. I commute several days to work and carry my clothes in a backpack. When it comes to my weekend ride I feel a lot lighter and faster without the backpack. Unfortunately my commute is a solo ride and the weekend ride a group ride, so I have no results to compare the two rides and confirm.

I think it would make it good training so long as you push yourself. I mean if you can ride 20 mph without the bag, then tell yourself you need to ride 20 mph with the bag. Don't make it an excuse for riding slower. Keep pushing yourself.
Originally Posted by mazdaspeed View Post
I agree about the backpack, I don't think the wheels would matter at all.
OR, you could get a power meter and train by your effort rather than nebulous external factors such as speed. Of course if you ride with more weight you will go slower and then when you ride without the weight you will magically be faster, but did you actually improve, or did you just fool your mind?
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Old 10-22-08, 03:43 PM
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carry an extra water bottle.
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Old 10-22-08, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
OR, you could get a power meter and train by your effort rather than nebulous external factors such as speed. Of course if you ride with more weight you will go slower and then when you ride without the weight you will magically be faster, but did you actually improve, or did you just fool your mind?
I agree. I'm part of the group that can't afford a power meter though. This is why i stressed that the same speeds must be maintained with or without the bag. Theoretically you should have to work more to produce the same results with the bag. No excuses. HTFU and push the big ring.
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Old 10-22-08, 03:44 PM
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train heavy, race light.
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Old 10-22-08, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
OR, you could get a power meter and train by your effort rather than nebulous external factors such as speed. Of course if you ride with more weight you will go slower and then when you ride without the weight you will magically be faster, but did you actually improve, or did you just fool your mind?
Good question.
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Old 10-22-08, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
I agree. I'm part of the group that can't afford a power meter though. This is why i stressed that the same speeds must be maintained with or without the bag. Theoretically you should have to work more to produce the same results with the bag. No excuses. HTFU and push the big ring.
Most people are
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Old 10-22-08, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
I agree. I'm part of the group that can't afford a power meter though. This is why i stressed that the same speeds must be maintained with or without the bag. Theoretically you should have to work more to produce the same results with the bag. No excuses. HTFU and push the big ring.
Originally Posted by mazdaspeed View Post
Most people are
If one can wonder whether getting Fulcrum 0's would help them with training, they can STFU and buy a power meter instead.
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Old 10-22-08, 04:06 PM
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HA! I guess I'm part of the group that can't afford Fulcrum 0's either. I've never heard or considered them as a purchase.

STFU mustang and get a powertap. Drope souls eventually.
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Old 10-22-08, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
train heavy, race light.
Word.
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Old 10-22-08, 04:30 PM
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If you were to take 2 exact same bikes with all the same parts, only bike # frame is a few pounds heavier than #3, #1 bike will be faster on the flats and downhills.
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Old 10-22-08, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by divineAndbright View Post
If you were to take 2 exact same bikes with all the same parts, only bike # frame is a few pounds heavier than #3, #1 bike will be faster on the flats and downhills.
No gym for home?
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Old 10-22-08, 06:04 PM
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So let me put it this way.

If I have two bikes, A and B, B is heavier. I rider 20 miles on bike A in 45 mins, and on bike B it takes 60 minutes for same distance. Have I exerted the same amount of effort on both bikes to obtain the same workout, the only thing being with bike A I took 15 minutes less (and thus I have 15 minutes more in the day, as well as more $$$ in my pocket coz I went for the heavier bike) ?

Ps: I'm not considering Fulcrum 0 (I would stay away from that poc and get ksyrium <--- cue holy wheels war ), I was merely giving examples of light/heavy.
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Old 10-22-08, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mustang1 View Post
So let me put it this way.

If I have two bikes, A and B, B is heavier. I rider 20 miles on bike A in 45 mins, and on bike B it takes 60 minutes for same distance. Have I exerted the same amount of effort on both bikes to obtain the same workout, the only thing being with bike A I took 15 minutes less (and thus I have 15 minutes more in the day, as well as more $$$ in my pocket coz I went for the heavier bike) ?

Ps: I'm not considering Fulcrum 0 (I would stay away from that poc and get ksyrium <--- cue holy wheels war ), I was merely giving examples of light/heavy.
Assuming that the difference in the time was only due to the bike, then you got less of a workout. Let me put it this way: you put out the same effort for less time. It doesn't matter that you were faster. On the other hand, if you finished 15 minutes faster only because you worked harded, then you got more of a workout.
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Old 10-22-08, 06:34 PM
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Listen to umd.

The important variables in training are time and intensity, not distance and speed.
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Old 10-22-08, 08:49 PM
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+1 for UMD's post
As some of the BF folks have mentioned it comes down to watts in the end. If you have two bikes (A and B) B being lets say 5lbs heavier. If you can push lets say 250watts for 1 hour regardless of bike. You then go ride bike A and ride for an hour then go ride bike B for an hour at the same effort (watts) the heavier bike would most likely net a slower time but in the end you would have done the same work. Your perceived effort may feel different but that is psychological.

Again, like I said before, if the "train heavy, race light" mentality really worked for cycling then every pro cyclist would be out training with extra weight.
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Old 10-22-08, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by travkat View Post
+1 for UMD's post
As some of the BF folks have mentioned it comes down to watts in the end. If you have two bikes (A and B) B being lets say 5lbs heavier. If you can push lets say 250watts for 1 hour regardless of bike. You then go ride bike A and ride for an hour then go ride bike B for an hour at the same effort (watts) the heavier bike would most likely net a slower time but in the end you would have done the same work. Your perceived effort may feel different but that is psychological.

Again, like I said before, if the "train heavy, race light" mentality really worked for cycling then every pro cyclist would be out training with extra weight.
I don't disagree with "train heavy, race light", but I wouldn't take it so far as to carry signficiant extra weight. I generally go the other way and just reduce weight for the race. E.g. no seatbag, race wheels, no keys, phone, etc... it all ads up to several pounds. Anyway, my main point is that getting a lighter/faster bike because you think that simply covering the same distance in less time means you are getting a better workout is wrong. Kinda like the idea the other day that sweating more means you are getting a better workout
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