Namenda

Am I the only one who doesn't find it necessary to maintain a relationship with a retail store? I mean, really, does this sort of thing keep folks up at night?

urbanknight

OK this was good eye opener to me. In my opinion, it's poor form to ask a bike shop for advice on any used or competitor's products. If you were interested in buying a NEW wheelset from HIS shop, then ask him what he recommends. If you're looking to save a buck by shopping craigslist, ebay, and elsewhere on the internet, don't involve him. Involve BF where advice is free (though not always good).

As for the bike, if they just didn't have the bike you wanted in your size, you should have ordered it through them. If you bought something they don't carry, then that's just like car shopping like you said.

Either way, the shop whining about it is worse than anything you might have done. I've worked for shops where the manager just said "I'm sorry, but I have paying customers to deal with right now", which is the only polite way to say buy my stuff or leave me alone.

banerjek

That's not a fitting, so you don't need to pay for that -- being appreciative of the time and advice they share is sufficient.

Hardly, but it really is worth maintaining good relationships with the people you work with. When you know you can trust a shop to give you great advice, service, and even prices without having to look around, life is that much better.

I try to be good to my shop, partly because it's a good thing to do, partly because I like them, but also because from a pure business perspective, we both come out ahead.

banerjek

Agreed on both points. However, it is not unusual for a shop to tell you about other deals out there if you are a good customer.

Tequila Joe

Let me get this striaght;
You spend $100 / month = $1200 / year.
Then, when you are looking to buy a bike, they give you advice but get pissed because you didn't buy the bike from them and claim that you're milking them?

Pfft! If they don't appreciate your business, take it somewhere else. You don't owe them anything.

cparekh

I am constantly asking myself this question. I have professional opinions (I am an economist who deals in competition), but I am still constantly baffled by bike shops.

I don't feel it necessary to maintain the relationship, but since it is my job, these types of questions do keep me up at night. I am constantly baffled by the sense of entitlement LBSs have, in that they feel they are doing me a service, rather than selling me a product. I am all for good relationships with vendors, but if a vendor ceases to be the best option for me, they either have to change or I have to go elsewhere. This does not seem to be true with bike shops.

mihlbach

**** 'em
www.nashbar.com
www.performancebike.com
www.jensonusa.com
www.probikekit.com

etc.

Randallissimo

From where I stand, $100 a month = good customer.

haimtoeg

DScott

Based on what I'm hearing I question the "friend" and his part in all this. If you don't waste their time, I wouldn't worry about it. In many bike shops I've seen, you'd be considered a "good customer" at $100/month... well, at least one *I* would want to keep if I was them.

JayC

Youre not the only one. Couple of examples.

I run TriangeCycling.Com. Its a forum for local road cycling in the Raleigh/Durham area. I offer all shops in the area FREE advertising on the forum. I had to beg most of them to take it. This isnt a forum with 20 or 30 members.. we have over 1200 members and have been growing consistently.

Ive told the shop managers and owners "Run some kind of sale on the forum to get people to come to the shop" so they all show up and put bikes on sale. Now bikes just arent spur of the moment purchases. I keep telling them that. I ask them to run a sale of clothing, nutritional products, something ANYTHING that someone might buy on a regular basis. No one has done it. One of the local shops gives one of the local clubs a 10% discount on parts and labor. I asked him to extend that to the forum since he advertised there and he refused saying "The forum hasnt done enough for me to warranty that." Its a chicken or the egg situation. If you offer the discount, people are going to come there and spend money. But if people arent spending money there because youre not getting them through the door, how will they ever spend enough money to make it worthwhile to give them the discount?

What's really funny about it to me, at least is that running forums for a living is what I do. Normally on our forums we charge people $100-150 a month for what Im giving these guys for free and none of them seem to have a clue how to take advantage of it.

The funny thing is.... all the shops act like they're doing me this huge favor by participating (And I use that term LOOSELY) on the forum. In reality, I dont give a crap if they do or not. People are there for other people, not for the shops. I could turn off all the shop's sections right now and no one would miss them because they rarely get used and when they do, it's on stuff no one cares about.

Another example...

I have a shop here locally that I tend to frequent. I've probably spend 20 grand with this guy over the last 2 years. This year alone I KNOW Ive spent over 12 grand with him. Anyways, Ive been asking the owner about a set of Zipps for the last 6 months and his reply was "Well, Ill sell you some Zipps at cost, I dont care" so we go back and forth back and forth. Last time I was up there getting my bike with all the broken Campy parts fixed (Dont ask), the Zipp rep was in there. All 3 of us were talking and the owner says "Well, Ill just EP you a set and sell them to you at cost." Coupla weeks go by again and I keep asking him if he got me a price.. He finally calls me and gives me a price and its pretty much the same price he's been giving me all long.. I question him about it and he says "Well, I gotta make a few hundred on them."

Now I realize this guy is in business to make money. I own my own business so I know how it goes. But there are certain people that its in your best interest to take care of. To him, Im one of them. I send him a ton of business and I spend an assload of money up there. Why would you tell your best customer (And yes, I know I am as he's stated on more than one occasion that I spend more money there than anyone else) you're going to sell him something at cost and then turn around and tell them youre going to have to make a few hundred off of them? Id rather him just marked them up a little and not told me.

Needless to say, that was probably a deal breaker on the wheels and possibly future purchases. Im happy with my bike(s) and Im mostly happy with the service I get there but when it comes down to getting parts, he has been kind of lacking. He ordered me some pedals and gave me one price and when I went to pick them up, he marked them up on me $30 a set.

Stuff like that adds up and you get to the point you dont want to deal with it anymore. Im kind of at that point now and sadly, all the shops around here are like that. They dont really give a crap about the customer, they just want to get you in the door and get you to spend some money and then get the hell out. The LBS business is a strange business.... I guess I just cant wrap my head around that business model.

cat4ever

I haven't read any replies yet but...

The shop is a BUSINESS. You're not spending money to make friends. It's business, nothing personal. If they take it to a personal level, then they A) don't understand business or B) aren't worthy of your business.

I would find another shop or if you really like this one, tell them that you're not wasting their time. Good lord, do these shop owners buy everything they looked at during interbike? Doubtful and if they did they are idiots (back to the don't understand business quip).

BillyD

I totally agree with this guy.

Rowan

A lot probably comes from the paternalistic attitude of many bike shop owners who have risen through the racing ranks, and have progressed from competition retirement to business (or merged the two). That means they are repository of all cycling knowledge and the customer should feel privileged when they hold forth on that knowledge.

In my home city, the two bike shops that treat their customers like dirt are run by ex-racers.

Another is run by a guy who likes bikes and cycles for leisure with his family but wasn't a racer, and chose a suburb that was ripe for a bike shop to be established. His bike shop is very popular because he is customer-focussed.

Yet another two are run by MTBers, and to a degree their attitude to anyone other than MTB riders is "so what?"; they are a bit like the ex-racers although if you are part of the "in crowd" MTB-wise, you're fine.

However, there is one that was established by an ex-racer, a former State champion. He has now moved into full retirement, but preparing for that, about a decade ago, put his daughter in as manager of the shop. She has almost no interest in cycling -- in fact, she is an architecture graduate with an interest in art. But the logic is that she is running the shop as a business, rather than as a passion. She has a wrench who does a pretty neat job, is personable and knows his products. They have people come and go in sales and the workshop. but she seems to sort through the dross quite well.

I did a fair amount of business with them, and brought them business, and could use their workshop as needed (not often). But when I moved away, then went back for a visit, I wasn't exactly welcomed back with open arms -- I was just another customer. And that's OK... that's business.

The paternalistic approach to LBS operation means the boss knows everything, and is all gung-ho to show that knowledge by passing it on. But that carries with it the perceived need for the customer then to repay that by buying something in return... and when the expectation in the LBS owner's mind isn't met, the customer becomes a loser.

LBSes are struggling to compete against internet. For good reason. But I can't help but think there is a lethargy, or a sort of head-in-sand outlook, rather than meeting the challenge head-on.

The analogy about the grocery shop might work... except, does the customer go into the grocery shop with the expectation of taking the staff's time to explain a recipe using the ingedients that might be in the basket (or not)? Imagine 20 people lined up at a checkout, waiting while each one ahead discusses in detail the ingredients, their alternatives, the way to prepare, cooking time, and serving style. In that case, the grocery analogy doesn't work.

Now a wine shop analogy... that might work!

Rowan

Do you not see the parallels here between your attitude to your customers (whether or not they are getting free space is irrelevant) and the LBS attitude towards its customers?

uke

+2. Sounds like they're taking advantage of you by trying to guilt trip you into dropping more dough than you already are into their store.

Booger

The LBS is not your girlfriend. Cripes.

JayC

No.. I dont. I encourage them to use what Im offering and tried to explain how they could utilize it to make the most of it. I dont make any money from them so them using what I offer or not is completely up to them. I just dont see the logic behind someone offering you an opportunity, trying to explain to you how best to use it and then you doing the exact opposite parallels the LBS's attitude. Last time I checked, they werent going out of their way to do anything for me.. let alone for free.

Unagidon

I couldn't bear going through all the threads to the end of page 2 but IMO:
1) Your friend is a loser. Find another friend.
2) Your LBS sucks. Find another shop.

Rowan

JayC,

As I said, put aside the free bit. Well, in fact... when the LBS offers free advice to its customers, maybe there is an expectation that the customer will use the paid-for services offered by the LBS.

In your case, you're offering the LBS a free service, then hoeing into them for not offering the reward that you expect -- that is, a discount for your customers.

Plus, you suggest that the bike shop section of your site is next to useless. It sounds to me as though you have set up something, failed to service it, failed to offer something substantial to sell it properly, and now want to whine about how the LBSes aren't supporting you.

Sheeesh... you can't have it both ways.

Capgemini

The customer is always right....I wouldn't sweat it.....if they don't like you...go somewhere else....

The lbs's around here are always very giving when it comes to advice...their motto is to promote cycling in general... regardless of whether or not you purchased anything from them.

bt

maybe you are pestering the mechanics for free tech help and the owner is sick of it.

beetz12

That's originally how I felt too, but now I'm not so sure...

There is another LBS less than a mile from me. I haven't bought anything from there yet but the people are always extremely pleasant. Maybe it's time to make them my new shop.

urbanknight

Agreed. I overheard the manager of my favorite shop answer the phone and tell the customer that his shop didn't carry Cannondale, and then gave them the name and number to the nearest two shops that did.

Also, +1 to $100/month being a good customer. My local shop seems to consider me a good customer, and I know I don't spend $100/month there because my "fun money" budget is $50/month and it doesn't all go to one place!

MrCrassic 

You have to look at it from both sides of the spectrum. You have supported the shop, in that you constantly go to them for parts and service recommendations. You buy stuff from them, which shows that you are a loyal customer and appreciate their business.

A lot of bike shop owners get a little perturbed at those that go to their shop to fit them to a bike they will buy at another shop. This is especially the case if they had to build it up for you to get you to test ride it. I did this to a bike shop, in that I was ready to put a Trek Madone 5.2 on layaway...until I decided to shelve off another bike at the store that I shop at now. Nothing against the shop; the store was just closer to me, and they had a greater variety. I eventually landed up delaying the bike purchase, but I will make an earnest attempt to buy from this shop...and I redirected a customer over to the old shop, where he bought a bike from them on the spot.

Don't take this too personally. If they don't service you well after this, then take your business elsewhere.

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