Am I taking advantage of my LBS?
11-04-08, 04:19 PM
#76
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My .02 having worked as a part/full time shop salesperson and head wrench in 2 shops for nearly 20 years.
Bike shops in general are mom and pop shops, usually handed down...last shop I worked in was 3rd generation owner, that are not in a "must have"...ie food, etc...market. We don't "need" $3000 bikes hehehe.
Bike shops, since the internet sales inception, have taken a major beating...not right or wrong/it is what it is...from online sales...major increase compared to the old "catalog" days...It is very hard to survive as a shop selling an article that can be had online, with no tax though there is shipping, for sometimes half the price. Inventory is also a stone cold *****. What is new today and priced thus is old news the following year and worth half though what they paid for it did not change.
Wholesalers/manufacturers...Canondale, etc... are making it more and more difficult for small shops to survive due to their buying requirements.
I am not trying to cry a river for the poor shop owner but it is not a bed of roses out there and hasn't been for a long time. How many shops come and go in your area? There is a reason...not making money lol...for it.
However bicycle shops rely totally on their customers desire to purchase from them for their livelihood and need to treat customers with respect and understanding regarding purchasing power. Often they take it too personally resulting in hard feelings and ultimately loss of customers and often the business.
All shops have to deal with customers that use them as a "showroom" and "advice/teaching center" only to see said customer buy the item online then come in and brag about how good a deal they got for that product online and how come the shop can't sell it so cheaply or carry an extensive inventory. They also have to deal with "shop wars". The customer uses one shop against another to get the best price possible...not saying it is good/bad just it is what it is.
Having been in the shoes of the shop owner/salesperson who spends a lot of time, sometimes at the expense of another customer getting less time, fitting and advising a customer on a bike only to see that customer buy it elsewhere. I do not like it at all but would not say a word to the customer because it is what it is and there is no guarantee nor agreement made...just fighting for a sale, we were hourly, I never worked on commission...If they bought it from a local competitor its all good as they are supporting a locally owned shop. If they buy it from an online seller it goes back to the "showroom/advice and teaching center for free" mentality and that is always bad for the shop and no one should wonder why there are fewer and fewer quality shops around.
What bothers me quite a bit is the customer that comes in regularly and asks for repair advice, tries on shoe after shoe, clothing, etc. then buys it online and brags about the great deal they got and how come we can not sell it so cheaply. We stopped giving "advice" on repairs to people we knew were doing this and in a couple of instances when the person complained about not getting free advice we "advised" them to call the online "shop" and get their advice. After all that is where they are spending all their money.
We had one customer that spent a lot of time trying on Sidi Genius shoes...We even ordered a pair for him, his request, in a half size that we would never carry, large feet hehehe, because he said he would buy them. We get them in, he tries them on and says he will be back to buy them. He comes back in several weeks later and when we ask he says he found them online at a much better price so we were stuck with a pair of boats we wound up taking a loss on. This person also came in on a very regular basis asking how to fix or adjust this or that and we always answered and helped. He comes in again a couple of months later with the shoes he bought online. The uppper had seperated from the sole. He wanted us to "warranty replace" them for him at no cost since we had the pair he asked us to order sitting around and we were after all a Sidi seller. After laughing at his request the owner showed him the door and invited him not to shop at our shop again.
That is the type of customer that is bad for the local shop...in sales as well as reputation. It does no one any good at all and spreads bad feelings throughout.
Good customers are treated as good customers. They get on the spot service quite often for that last minute adjustment before a big ride/race, etc. Abusers get what they deserve and their complaints fall on deaf ears. At the same time shops have to remember that it is not personal merely the customer trying to get the best deal they can.
Bike shops in general are mom and pop shops, usually handed down...last shop I worked in was 3rd generation owner, that are not in a "must have"...ie food, etc...market. We don't "need" $3000 bikes hehehe.
Bike shops, since the internet sales inception, have taken a major beating...not right or wrong/it is what it is...from online sales...major increase compared to the old "catalog" days...It is very hard to survive as a shop selling an article that can be had online, with no tax though there is shipping, for sometimes half the price. Inventory is also a stone cold *****. What is new today and priced thus is old news the following year and worth half though what they paid for it did not change.
Wholesalers/manufacturers...Canondale, etc... are making it more and more difficult for small shops to survive due to their buying requirements.
I am not trying to cry a river for the poor shop owner but it is not a bed of roses out there and hasn't been for a long time. How many shops come and go in your area? There is a reason...not making money lol...for it.
However bicycle shops rely totally on their customers desire to purchase from them for their livelihood and need to treat customers with respect and understanding regarding purchasing power. Often they take it too personally resulting in hard feelings and ultimately loss of customers and often the business.
All shops have to deal with customers that use them as a "showroom" and "advice/teaching center" only to see said customer buy the item online then come in and brag about how good a deal they got for that product online and how come the shop can't sell it so cheaply or carry an extensive inventory. They also have to deal with "shop wars". The customer uses one shop against another to get the best price possible...not saying it is good/bad just it is what it is.
Having been in the shoes of the shop owner/salesperson who spends a lot of time, sometimes at the expense of another customer getting less time, fitting and advising a customer on a bike only to see that customer buy it elsewhere. I do not like it at all but would not say a word to the customer because it is what it is and there is no guarantee nor agreement made...just fighting for a sale, we were hourly, I never worked on commission...If they bought it from a local competitor its all good as they are supporting a locally owned shop. If they buy it from an online seller it goes back to the "showroom/advice and teaching center for free" mentality and that is always bad for the shop and no one should wonder why there are fewer and fewer quality shops around.
What bothers me quite a bit is the customer that comes in regularly and asks for repair advice, tries on shoe after shoe, clothing, etc. then buys it online and brags about the great deal they got and how come we can not sell it so cheaply. We stopped giving "advice" on repairs to people we knew were doing this and in a couple of instances when the person complained about not getting free advice we "advised" them to call the online "shop" and get their advice. After all that is where they are spending all their money.
We had one customer that spent a lot of time trying on Sidi Genius shoes...We even ordered a pair for him, his request, in a half size that we would never carry, large feet hehehe, because he said he would buy them. We get them in, he tries them on and says he will be back to buy them. He comes back in several weeks later and when we ask he says he found them online at a much better price so we were stuck with a pair of boats we wound up taking a loss on. This person also came in on a very regular basis asking how to fix or adjust this or that and we always answered and helped. He comes in again a couple of months later with the shoes he bought online. The uppper had seperated from the sole. He wanted us to "warranty replace" them for him at no cost since we had the pair he asked us to order sitting around and we were after all a Sidi seller. After laughing at his request the owner showed him the door and invited him not to shop at our shop again.
That is the type of customer that is bad for the local shop...in sales as well as reputation. It does no one any good at all and spreads bad feelings throughout.
Good customers are treated as good customers. They get on the spot service quite often for that last minute adjustment before a big ride/race, etc. Abusers get what they deserve and their complaints fall on deaf ears. At the same time shops have to remember that it is not personal merely the customer trying to get the best deal they can.
11-04-08, 04:25 PM
#77
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I bought my CX bike on ebay. Didn't set out to... but right before (like 4 hours before) I had to decide between ordernig a Tricross from my LBS that always hooks me up good, and a BMC from Cadence... I came across a brand new Blue CXC for real real cheap that was ending in a couple hours.
My LBS gets it. I stopped in on the way home from racing Sunday, and he helped tighten the headset (the wedge nut was slipping). No charge for taking it all apart and fiddling around with it for a while.
Then we talked about which SL2 I'm going to get. I gave up on the white one that's backordered til Feb, and went with the Black and Red in Team Geometry. It looks like white bikes will be THE cliche of 2009.
And we talked about the RED group I'm picking up on the cheap elsewhere too. If he can't touch a price, he doesn't sweat it. If the prices are close, I don't even bother to shop... just pick it up from him and save myself the hassle.
I dunno, shops that count nickels just always seem to miss out on my dollars.
My LBS gets it. I stopped in on the way home from racing Sunday, and he helped tighten the headset (the wedge nut was slipping). No charge for taking it all apart and fiddling around with it for a while.
Then we talked about which SL2 I'm going to get. I gave up on the white one that's backordered til Feb, and went with the Black and Red in Team Geometry. It looks like white bikes will be THE cliche of 2009.
And we talked about the RED group I'm picking up on the cheap elsewhere too. If he can't touch a price, he doesn't sweat it. If the prices are close, I don't even bother to shop... just pick it up from him and save myself the hassle.
I dunno, shops that count nickels just always seem to miss out on my dollars.
11-04-08, 10:04 PM
#79
Carbon FTW
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Thanks to everyone that replied.
Now I feel much better about dropping the shop and taking my business elsewhere where it's appreciated.
There is another bike shop close to me, and although I've not purchased anything, they always make me feel very important. A few weeks ago I test rode some of their bikes, and ended up buying online. They were totally cool about it, and even gave me plenty of advice when I asked.
Today I had them install a headset on a new bike. The mechanic did an amazing job, and tweaked everything to perfection - and charged only half of what I would've paid at my old shop. I think this is the start of a beautiful relationship
Now I feel much better about dropping the shop and taking my business elsewhere where it's appreciated.
There is another bike shop close to me, and although I've not purchased anything, they always make me feel very important. A few weeks ago I test rode some of their bikes, and ended up buying online. They were totally cool about it, and even gave me plenty of advice when I asked.
Today I had them install a headset on a new bike. The mechanic did an amazing job, and tweaked everything to perfection - and charged only half of what I would've paid at my old shop. I think this is the start of a beautiful relationship
11-04-08, 10:10 PM
#80
Go as fast as you can
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My .02 having worked as a part/full time shop salesperson and head wrench in 2 shops for nearly 20 years.
Bike shops in general are mom and pop shops, usually handed down...last shop I worked in was 3rd generation owner, that are not in a "must have"...ie food, etc...market. We don't "need" $3000 bikes hehehe.
Bike shops, since the internet sales inception, have taken a major beating...not right or wrong/it is what it is...from online sales...major increase compared to the old "catalog" days...It is very hard to survive as a shop selling an article that can be had online, with no tax though there is shipping, for sometimes half the price. Inventory is also a stone cold *****. What is new today and priced thus is old news the following year and worth half though what they paid for it did not change.
Wholesalers/manufacturers...Canondale, etc... are making it more and more difficult for small shops to survive due to their buying requirements.
I am not trying to cry a river for the poor shop owner but it is not a bed of roses out there and hasn't been for a long time. How many shops come and go in your area? There is a reason...not making money lol...for it.
However bicycle shops rely totally on their customers desire to purchase from them for their livelihood and need to treat customers with respect and understanding regarding purchasing power. Often they take it too personally resulting in hard feelings and ultimately loss of customers and often the business.
All shops have to deal with customers that use them as a "showroom" and "advice/teaching center" only to see said customer buy the item online then come in and brag about how good a deal they got for that product online and how come the shop can't sell it so cheaply or carry an extensive inventory. They also have to deal with "shop wars". The customer uses one shop against another to get the best price possible...not saying it is good/bad just it is what it is.
Having been in the shoes of the shop owner/salesperson who spends a lot of time, sometimes at the expense of another customer getting less time, fitting and advising a customer on a bike only to see that customer buy it elsewhere. I do not like it at all but would not say a word to the customer because it is what it is and there is no guarantee nor agreement made...just fighting for a sale, we were hourly, I never worked on commission...If they bought it from a local competitor its all good as they are supporting a locally owned shop. If they buy it from an online seller it goes back to the "showroom/advice and teaching center for free" mentality and that is always bad for the shop and no one should wonder why there are fewer and fewer quality shops around.
What bothers me quite a bit is the customer that comes in regularly and asks for repair advice, tries on shoe after shoe, clothing, etc. then buys it online and brags about the great deal they got and how come we can not sell it so cheaply. We stopped giving "advice" on repairs to people we knew were doing this and in a couple of instances when the person complained about not getting free advice we "advised" them to call the online "shop" and get their advice. After all that is where they are spending all their money.
We had one customer that spent a lot of time trying on Sidi Genius shoes...We even ordered a pair for him, his request, in a half size that we would never carry, large feet hehehe, because he said he would buy them. We get them in, he tries them on and says he will be back to buy them. He comes back in several weeks later and when we ask he says he found them online at a much better price so we were stuck with a pair of boats we wound up taking a loss on. This person also came in on a very regular basis asking how to fix or adjust this or that and we always answered and helped. He comes in again a couple of months later with the shoes he bought online. The uppper had seperated from the sole. He wanted us to "warranty replace" them for him at no cost since we had the pair he asked us to order sitting around and we were after all a Sidi seller. After laughing at his request the owner showed him the door and invited him not to shop at our shop again.
That is the type of customer that is bad for the local shop...in sales as well as reputation. It does no one any good at all and spreads bad feelings throughout.
Good customers are treated as good customers. They get on the spot service quite often for that last minute adjustment before a big ride/race, etc. Abusers get what they deserve and their complaints fall on deaf ears. At the same time shops have to remember that it is not personal merely the customer trying to get the best deal they can.
Bike shops in general are mom and pop shops, usually handed down...last shop I worked in was 3rd generation owner, that are not in a "must have"...ie food, etc...market. We don't "need" $3000 bikes hehehe.
Bike shops, since the internet sales inception, have taken a major beating...not right or wrong/it is what it is...from online sales...major increase compared to the old "catalog" days...It is very hard to survive as a shop selling an article that can be had online, with no tax though there is shipping, for sometimes half the price. Inventory is also a stone cold *****. What is new today and priced thus is old news the following year and worth half though what they paid for it did not change.
Wholesalers/manufacturers...Canondale, etc... are making it more and more difficult for small shops to survive due to their buying requirements.
I am not trying to cry a river for the poor shop owner but it is not a bed of roses out there and hasn't been for a long time. How many shops come and go in your area? There is a reason...not making money lol...for it.
However bicycle shops rely totally on their customers desire to purchase from them for their livelihood and need to treat customers with respect and understanding regarding purchasing power. Often they take it too personally resulting in hard feelings and ultimately loss of customers and often the business.
All shops have to deal with customers that use them as a "showroom" and "advice/teaching center" only to see said customer buy the item online then come in and brag about how good a deal they got for that product online and how come the shop can't sell it so cheaply or carry an extensive inventory. They also have to deal with "shop wars". The customer uses one shop against another to get the best price possible...not saying it is good/bad just it is what it is.
Having been in the shoes of the shop owner/salesperson who spends a lot of time, sometimes at the expense of another customer getting less time, fitting and advising a customer on a bike only to see that customer buy it elsewhere. I do not like it at all but would not say a word to the customer because it is what it is and there is no guarantee nor agreement made...just fighting for a sale, we were hourly, I never worked on commission...If they bought it from a local competitor its all good as they are supporting a locally owned shop. If they buy it from an online seller it goes back to the "showroom/advice and teaching center for free" mentality and that is always bad for the shop and no one should wonder why there are fewer and fewer quality shops around.
What bothers me quite a bit is the customer that comes in regularly and asks for repair advice, tries on shoe after shoe, clothing, etc. then buys it online and brags about the great deal they got and how come we can not sell it so cheaply. We stopped giving "advice" on repairs to people we knew were doing this and in a couple of instances when the person complained about not getting free advice we "advised" them to call the online "shop" and get their advice. After all that is where they are spending all their money.
We had one customer that spent a lot of time trying on Sidi Genius shoes...We even ordered a pair for him, his request, in a half size that we would never carry, large feet hehehe, because he said he would buy them. We get them in, he tries them on and says he will be back to buy them. He comes back in several weeks later and when we ask he says he found them online at a much better price so we were stuck with a pair of boats we wound up taking a loss on. This person also came in on a very regular basis asking how to fix or adjust this or that and we always answered and helped. He comes in again a couple of months later with the shoes he bought online. The uppper had seperated from the sole. He wanted us to "warranty replace" them for him at no cost since we had the pair he asked us to order sitting around and we were after all a Sidi seller. After laughing at his request the owner showed him the door and invited him not to shop at our shop again.
That is the type of customer that is bad for the local shop...in sales as well as reputation. It does no one any good at all and spreads bad feelings throughout.
Good customers are treated as good customers. They get on the spot service quite often for that last minute adjustment before a big ride/race, etc. Abusers get what they deserve and their complaints fall on deaf ears. At the same time shops have to remember that it is not personal merely the customer trying to get the best deal they can.
11-04-08, 11:47 PM
#81
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This sort of drama is why when I need a basic tool or part, I prefer to just go to performance or rei or somewhere like that where i can get in, buy it, and get out without having to talk about bicycles with anyone.
11-05-08, 09:27 AM
#82
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There is very little drama in a bike shop. Most customers buy from the shop because it is in their area, it is a mom and pop shop and they are generally treated as valued customers...we don't "need" a bicycle in general so any customer is a valued customer. Even the pains in the arse, though shop folk will whine about them hehehe.
While bike shops have lost a lot of their sales to internet sites they have seen a rather large increase in repair time. When I got started in the biz, riding/sales and repairs, we had a 5 speed freewheel and friction shifters. Most everything could be fixed with a screwdrive and wrench, not counting bb and headset tools, etc. Today you have to know so much to repair a bike, road or atb, that the "average" person doesn't have a clue what is needed and therefore brings it to a shop for repairs. Also ATB's take much more of a beating requiring work than a road bike does. This also brings in much more business. People in this forum, some not all, may know how to fix their bike but you are a minority. Most go to a shop.
The local bike shop has changed dramatically over the past 2 decades but one thing has and will stay the same. They need customers to stay in business and generally value those customers quite a bit.
While bike shops have lost a lot of their sales to internet sites they have seen a rather large increase in repair time. When I got started in the biz, riding/sales and repairs, we had a 5 speed freewheel and friction shifters. Most everything could be fixed with a screwdrive and wrench, not counting bb and headset tools, etc. Today you have to know so much to repair a bike, road or atb, that the "average" person doesn't have a clue what is needed and therefore brings it to a shop for repairs. Also ATB's take much more of a beating requiring work than a road bike does. This also brings in much more business. People in this forum, some not all, may know how to fix their bike but you are a minority. Most go to a shop.
The local bike shop has changed dramatically over the past 2 decades but one thing has and will stay the same. They need customers to stay in business and generally value those customers quite a bit.
11-05-08, 09:32 AM
#83
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Next time you go in there, take a 6 or 12 and say "thanks for your advice" while giving it to the mechanics. All will be forgiven.
11-05-08, 12:30 PM
#84
Steel80's
The response you get depends on the attitude you bring. If you let it be known you're there to buy something and you want to make an educated choice you get treated better than if it seems like you just want free help and chisel them for bargains.Personally I avoid shops that have snotty attitudes, there's too many other options, and I don't spend enough time or money that they'd notice anyway. Maybe you should take your business elsewhere for a while and see if they get any nicer the next time you come in.
11-05-08, 01:10 PM
#85
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We would get beer from our good customers for service out of the ordinary. It was a very fair exchange and all were winners.
11-05-08, 01:47 PM
#86
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There are a couple LBS near me that are doing a thriving business. It's because they carry a complete stock of bikes and equipment and have enough service staff to accomodate customers immediately when they walk in.
I went in to browse and ended up test riding a high end bike. They didn't ask for an ID, didn't set any time when I needed to be back, and offered to lend me a warmer jacket. I came back a few days alter to order the frame and buildup and was surprised the only wait was the build time of three days. They had a complete stock of DA, Record, and Red to choose from.
While the stores carrys mostly high end road and tri equipment, they also carry some entry level as well as hybrids.
The weekends are crowded but I was surprsied even week days are busy. The LBS found a share of the market and are successful.
LBS, just like any other business, need to constantly adjust to changing conditions. That includes knowing that the internet brings a different type of competition.
I went in to browse and ended up test riding a high end bike. They didn't ask for an ID, didn't set any time when I needed to be back, and offered to lend me a warmer jacket. I came back a few days alter to order the frame and buildup and was surprised the only wait was the build time of three days. They had a complete stock of DA, Record, and Red to choose from.
While the stores carrys mostly high end road and tri equipment, they also carry some entry level as well as hybrids.
The weekends are crowded but I was surprsied even week days are busy. The LBS found a share of the market and are successful.
LBS, just like any other business, need to constantly adjust to changing conditions. That includes knowing that the internet brings a different type of competition.
11-10-08, 02:31 PM
#87
Carbon FTW
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Update:
I walked in on Sunday to pick up a part that I needed badly and said hi to the manager who was standing at the counter with a few other guys. He kept his head down and pretended I was not there.
I realize he is still probably upset because I didn't buy my bike from them, and angry because I wasted a few minutes of his time. But I frequently drop them a few bucks so I figured everything works out. He is clearly more concerned with making money than building good relationships and I honestly think this attitude is bad for shops.
Now I have no qualms at all all about switching to a new shop and I hope I never have to buy anything there again.
I walked in on Sunday to pick up a part that I needed badly and said hi to the manager who was standing at the counter with a few other guys. He kept his head down and pretended I was not there.
I realize he is still probably upset because I didn't buy my bike from them, and angry because I wasted a few minutes of his time. But I frequently drop them a few bucks so I figured everything works out. He is clearly more concerned with making money than building good relationships and I honestly think this attitude is bad for shops.
Now I have no qualms at all all about switching to a new shop and I hope I never have to buy anything there again.
11-10-08, 05:43 PM
#88
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Obviously he is not interested in making money. Point being, I'd find another shop; no salesman is suppose to get angry at their customer. Look at car dealerships, the whole point of the dealer is to get you into a car, and on the road for a test drive. Several companies will even pay you to test drive their cars!
