Interesting opinon. I sense bias here.

If you have something against 'entry level' road bikes so be it. But not everyone wants to drop 1200+ on a bike initially. The OCR1, and 2 are great bikes because they can be upgraded. They both have excellent 6016 compact Aluminum frames and are well designed. The OCR2 has always been all Sora with mavic and cinelli, and for this year I believe its Tiagra, while the OCR3 is Sora.

You say no other manufacturer makes bikes in this range....hmmm.....perhaps the

Cannondale R400, R500
Trek 1000, 1200, 2000
Specialzed Allez Sport, Elite

dont count???

all sport virtually the same frame materials and component group (save Cannondale and the worthless CODA components).

Fact is The Giant OCR series is one of the best values in the entry level price range. Your comment about the welds on the frames is simply overstated....the welds are as good on my OCR2 as they are on my R600. I also fail to understand your comment on the 'one size fits all' idea. The frames come in S, M, and L....same as cannondale did for a while...the idea is that if you take a compact frame design, then you only need a few sizes. You can mix and match seatposts and stems to acheive a better fit, since the frame is scaled down. How is this different then buying a 54cm Cannondale or Trek? Same concept, different design. The measurements for each frame are listed on the Giant website. Truth is, if you want more frame choices/odd sizing you are going to order a custom frame anyways, virtually all mass production manufacturers use standard frame sizes to sell to the general public, who generally do not need custom frame sizes.

In summation, I am new here....I am not trying to offend, but your comments on the OCR line seem to stem from your personal bias against them, rather than being based in any sort of factual reality. The only real weakness would be the Sora components which are standard on ALL bikes in this price range...be it Trek, Cannondale etc. And as anyone knows, you will upgrade those when necessary....thats why they are entry level.

H20...

Where I live [Montreal], the OCR3 sells for about $700 [Canadian]. There no other road bike in that price range. Period. The Bottom-end Specialized Allez sells for $1200, and the Allez Sport sells for $1700. The Cannondale R400 sells for $1200 and the R500 sells for about $1700.

In contrast, the OCR range is: OCR3 [sub-Sora] $700, OCR2 [Tiagra/Sora] $1200, OCR1 [105] $1500. Bear in mind that I was posting about the 2001 models; the 2002 models have been considerably up-specced.

Having said that, the OCRs are hobbled by a pretty crummy, heavy frame [available in only three sizes] and a no-name brand finsihing kit. Sure, you get 105 with the OCR1, but you also get a no-name handlebar and stem, bottom-end Hutchinson tires, a questionable headset, all hung on a nice-looking but compromosed frame.

I'm not much of a fan of the Cannondale or Specialized bikes either. I think the Tiagra on the Allez Sport is a significant down-spec and I agree about Cannondale's Coda components. However, the Allez and R500 frames are far, far superior [IMO] to the OCR frames, and much more amenable to upgrading. The Allez economizes on the pedals, which I think is a worthwhile trade-off for the Kinesis fork and superior frame.

If someone came to me with only $700 to spend on a road bike, I would steer them far, far away from the OCR3 and toward a used bike. If they had a little more money to spend, I'd direct them to smaller brands with better products, like Devinci or Marinoni. If all they want is something that looks like a road bike to tool around town on. then I'd say go with the Giant.

I think Giant does a fine job of filling the low end with a budget line of bikes. But it is a budget line of bikes. I don't think anyone will be cheated for buying an OCR3, since that's the only bike with drop bars and roadie-ish components in that price range. But you get what you pay for, and you don't get much.

Do I have a bias against Giant? Not particularly, but I do have a bias against low-quality bikes. I think that a heavy, poorly-specced [of necessity, given the price point] bike will discourage a beginning cyclist rather than encourage him. $1500 spent on a bike that you love and ride every day for years represents great value. $700 spent on a bike that you ride a few times and find so frustrating that it ends up in the garage for the rest of the decade [and I suspect that this will vbe the fate of most OCR3s] is not a great value.

I've owned a 2002 OCR2 for about eight months now. I ride 150 miles a week on a regular basis and have enjoyed quite a few century rides. I haven't had a single problem with the bike. I went for the Giant becuase I was interested in triathlons and didn't have $1500 to spend. My reasoning was that if I really enjoyed the sport, I could reward myself with a better and tri specific bike at the end of this years season (thinking cervelo P2k) and still have a road bike for early season training. If for what ever reason I bail on the sport, them I'm only out eight hundred bucks. All in all, I wouldn't change a thing if I had it to do over again.

Velo,


Hm, thats pricy! I agree about the OCR3 if you are talking about the 2001 models, but I think from any year the OCR1,2 are highly upgradable. I did a lot of comparing before spening my cash on an OCR2 for training. I will agree that the OCR frames are slightly heavier than Id like but they compare quite favorably to the Cadd3 on the R400 and the Trek frames I have looked at. The allez frames are basically a copy of the Giant frame (compact geometry, average aluminum build)...and if you research the OCR frames, the only real difference between the OCR and TCR (top of the line) frames are the thicknesses of the Aluminum tubing...the OCR weighs in a little heavier. Around here (washington dc) you can pick up a OCR2 for around $800 or so. An OCR3 is about $700....conversely, the Cannondale R400 (absolute bottom end from cannondale, almost all CODA) comes in at about 899.00 in a typical store, sometimes more. I too work at a bike shop on weekends, and most folks i know seem to agree that the OCR1, and OCR2 are two of the best deals going in beginner/intermediate road bikes. The one problem I have with it is the threaded fork, Id like to see an unthreaded carbon fork on the OCR1, 2 instead of the steel. However, this is an upgrade that would put you in Cannondale R400, R500 price territory (or Trek 2000) and I think this bike beats both of them hands down.
I think for people using these bikes for training, and a good work out are getting a great deal. I would not race with the OCR2 unless I upgraded everything to Dura Ace or something equivalent....but I could easily get this bike to around 18-19 pounds. I beleive mine weighs in at 22.5 stock. Eliminate the Sora and steel fork and well......I do agree with you about the OCR 3 though it previously was no-name sora...as it would take a bit more cash to upgrade it. But I beleive even IT has been upgraded to sora, mavic and cinelli.....

I think you need to remember too, that $1500 is a lot of cash, in the US that would buy you something in R900 territory or a high end Trek etc. I think if you get to the point in your riding where you are serious enough that you are going to race or begin to take epic rides on your bike, THEN you should drop the extra cash. When top performance is essential, and begins to be expected..... But bikes in the range are HIGH end. I dont consder entry level bikes to be budget, but simply practical. I also dont consider 8-900 bucks to be throw away cash either. bottom line to me, is that any bike in the 700-1100 dollar range is not only going to be upgraded but its DESIGNEd to be upgraded...lets be honest, you are paying for the frame. An intermediate, frame with low end components. If you want better right off the bat, you are better off spending $1300+. Bt even then you are getting the same frame but with Tiagra/105 components...For most folks, even myself, its simply not worth it. Id rather buy the entry model and upgrade to some real components later on....And in the end, Im not making a living off weekend races, or fun/training rides.

I agree that, generally, you'll get a better used bike for $700 than buying new, providing you are an educated consumer. I've bought 1 bike (used Raleigh M80) and 2 frames (used Giant NRS, new Fuji Team) off eBay. I'm a huge eBay advocate, but I knew exactly what I wanted with respect to frame material, sizing and price. I would not suggest a novice do this.

A beginner on a limited budget can be happy with a new $700 bicycle - even an OCR. However, he better keep his expectations in line. A $700 bike is not a race bike. It probably will be 3 to 5 lbs. heavier than a $1,200 bike. It will not be as comfortable on 30+ mile rides. The components will wear much faster. And, no matter what is said, it's probably not as upgrade-worthy as you think.

Check out this month's Bicycling Magazine review of a $450 road bike they actually liked. Forget the brand, but for many people it's a place to start.

To actually answer the question. I love my Schwinn Supersport GLX. I was going to buy the Trek 2200 but I found at a LBS that the Schwinn was priced (on sale) for the same amount as the Trek. And it fit me better. When I got on the Trek I found it stretched me out too much. But the Schwinn is perfect for me.

I promise if you get a Schwinn road bike you will see NO others. I have never seen another one. So at least you will be original.

Schwinn has done some reconfiguring and is not putting out the quality bikes that it was last year. They are still producing some MTBs that I have seen at my LBS but nothing in a new road bike. My bike shop still has the SS in stock and you can probably find it within in the $1,000-$1,200 range. (Last year it was priced at $1,499 or something like that.)

Here is the link:
http://store.schwinn.com/cgi-bin/nco...&cgrfnbr=49081

Cut and paste it. It work the specs are there too.

Good luck.

I just bought a Cannondale R400 for $750 and love it. If I had the extra cash I would have gotten an R700 it was $1,099. I test rode Trek, Cannondale and Specalized. The Cannondale is what I liked but thats just personal preference.

Myself, I found what I believe to be a Peugot UX-10 (PX-10LE with clinchers) at a flea market for US$ 50. Granted, it's not the best, but it weighs in at around 22 lbs, and it's just enough to get me going. I just really started getting into cycling, and soon I'm going to my 1st race. I don't intend to do great, I just want to be able to hold on to the back without getting dropped. My Peugot may not be the best racer, but the seat's comfy, and it's great for training.

Just a thought.

I bought a Devinci for $1100 Canadian (way cheaper in Canada cause they are domestic).

It has Sora/Tiagra and mavik components and an excellent alluminum frame. Very nice carbon fiber Look pedals, Ritchey handle, and a very comfortable Selle Italia saddle.

The whole thing is 21lbs.

This bike easily beats everything else hands down from other manufacturers (price relative in Canada). Sure, the components aren't all that fancy, but can be upgraded.

I have been riding it more than 200km (70% climbing) each week since I got it, and every week I'm adding on more and more milage to my routes.

This one time I met this really nice dude on the route on a classic steel Vitali. He actually stopped and let me catch up with him and we started talking.

He said he liked my bike. I told him the components are a little skimpy. He said it doesn't really matter.
His bike weighed 22 lbs overall and as we were chatting he listed all the climbs and time trials he had won on the Vitali going head to head with other riders with really high-end bikes.

I disagree with Velo when he says a more budget bike will actually discourage a rider as it has quality problems. Let me tell you that I rode my X-mart bike a lot and it never discourged me, heck, I even did a damn centry on that 50 lbs. thing.

If you think something as silly as having a Sora instead of a 105 or Ultegra is going to make the difference between you becoming a serious rider then congrats, you have become a consumer who*re.
Wether your bike is $1000 or $10,000 you still gonna have to pedal.

Most people new to road biking,me included ,have nothing to guage or reference to when it comes to a new (first)bike. I recently purchased a 2002 Allez 27 A1 Sport. From my perspective ,I realize it is an entry level bike,but since I have nothing to compare it to I am very satisfied. I also mountain bike. I realize after a couple of years that a newer upgraded bike will offer me more performance and better rides. That is a natural progression and I expect in a couple of years I will be ready to upgrade from the Allez.

WARNING

This thread was flagged as ap[ossible form of secret advertising/flame. However I will not delete.

I ask all to be very careful on what you read. I know from experience that many companies have 'workers' post either positive things about their products to advertise for free and pass what could be misinformation or worse as many do is to say bad things about other bikes (competitors).

Such posts are not allowed and end up many times costing companies money in misinformation passed by either people in the industry or personal epxereince from buyers that may not necessarily be your own.

It was that post pushing Peugeot PX10s wasn't it?

:D :D

:beer:

Overreacting a bit aren't we Xavior?

People may have biased opinions one way or another. Frankly I think it's rather silly that you threaten to delete a thread because you somehow think it's a source of mis-information.

Instead of accusation, try to instead counter-argue anything that may seem to obscene.

How do you figure you can be judge of people's opinion's anyways? I mean no offense, but I'm rather shocked by what you just posted.

So what now? We shouldn't talk about our personally preferred products because there is a chance we may be labled "emplyee's" of that company?

Looks like people giving their opinions to me.....

But you already deleted my post which had positive comments about the Giant OCR2 and Specialized Allez Sport. Let me assure you I DON'T work for either companies. I am just a satisfied consumer who does a lot of research/testing and who also uses common sense before buying stuff.

What kind of forum is this when people can't express their opinions on bikes?

Considering that Amir posted before, during and after buying his bike, and posted about the whole process of chosing his bike, I doubt he's a plant. Besides, I've met some of the Devinci people; they're really not the type to lower themselves to that kind of marketing. It's a class operation.

Hi. Condor here. New guy to forum. Live on Mississippi Gulf Coast an hour east of New Orleans.

You're looking for a new bike in the $1000-$1500 range?

I was just in Dallas and bought a Fuji Roubaix-Pro at Jack Johnston Bicycles for $1345.

First they almost talked me into buying a Cannondale CAD (CAAD) 5 or 6 or whatever, supposedly a $3500 bike for "only" $2600. And it probably WAS an unbelievable deal, but it wasn' t the bike for me. I felt ridiculous riding it.

Then Jack Johnston himself (older gent, ex-racer) stepped in and recommended a Fuji Team. I almost bought that, too, but the Roubaix-Pro caught my eye at the last minute.

It has a Reynolds 853 steel frame and Ritchey and Shimano 105 components. It is an understated bike, a real sleeper, that rides like a dream. Johnston said the frame was better than the components and could be upgraded later.

I like the bike because of its solid virtues, not because the bike is screaming "COOL!" and "LOOK AT ME!"

Now if I can just sort out the issue of shoes. I have trouble finding comfortable ones. Trying out a pair of Carnac Legends at the moment.

Peace,

Condor

Seeing that lately my Pugeot UX-10 seems hell-bent to destroy either me or itself (The freewheel started coming apart as I was riding it), I was looking at a LeMond at my LBS. It has a tiagra front end with a 105 rear, and it's only $1000 (w/o a team discount I may recieve). After chatting with some LeMond owners at the weekly training criterium, everybody who owns a LeMond frame at least likes it, and I believe for the price, it's better than anything else I can find in the area (Giant and Trek). I've had some doubts about the whole s/m/l thing on the Giant, and the Trek... I dunno. It doesn't call to me, sweetly whispering "Sell your mother to buy me," like the LeMond does.:p

In other words, is the LeMond trying to cheat me out of a mother, or is it worth the absense of clean clothing?

Lemonds are generally nice bikes. I'm not sure which model you're looking at, since I don't think Lemond actually has a bike with that component spec -- maybe it's an up-specced Tourmalet?

Take the bike for a ride before you buy it! Lemonds have ratehr different geometries than most other American-made road bikes. They have more relaxed seat tube and head tubes and slightly longer top tubes. It's actually a nice geometry for long, fast rides, similar in many ways to a touring geometry.

But if you're used to the straight-over-the-front-hub feel of a frame optimized for criteriums I'm not, and I think crit geometry is a crime in most road bikes], the Lemond might take some getting used to.

I have found this forum to be somewhat helpful in that I am looking to spend as little as humanly possible on a road bike for recreational riding. No competitions in my future, but perhaps a few century rides within the next 8-12 months...

I found a 2002 Motobecane Record for $525.00. Any thoughts? And yes I know it has low end components, but my bank account is low-end as well...:beer:

From what I've seen (not in person yet, though) these new Asian Motos are about as good a way to get onto a brand new bike as there is. You can buy more used but if you want the convenience of a new bike at that money I don't see how you can do better. Iron Horse has an inexpensive starter too if you can find a dealer.

:beer:

God...I *had* to read this thread

I was almost ready to plunge about $1500 cdn for a Giant OCR1. I'm going to be working at a bike shop this summer and I'll be able to get some very nice discounts (probably for $1000 after tax).

The comments from velo make the OCR line seem like crap :/

I need a good bike - a bike that I'll be riding everyday for progressively longer distances (I enjoy pushing myself) - I had already made my mind up about the Giant but now I'm having second thoughts...hmm...

Everyone... My comments on the OCR line were based on my observations of the 2001 bikes. I have not seen the 2002 models, but I understand they have some major spec upgrades. Moreover, although I'm not a big fan of the frame across the line -- I think it's a heavy frame and I don't like the 3-sizes-fit-all approach -- my main beef was with the 2001 OCR3 [which I do think is crap] and, to some extent, the OCR2.

My advice for anyone buying a bike is to go out and try as many bikes as you possibly can, regardless of frame material and brand name. You may only SEE Giant, but you might find one of last year's Univegas at a great price [a better value IMO], or a great deal from a smaller company like Marinoni, Devinci or whatever local bike companies you might have nearby.

If the OCR1 fits you and you like how it rides, go for it... But try some other bikes, both from different manufacturers and at different price points, so you can make an informed choice. If this is your first roadie, you probably don't know what you want, or what features are imporant to you. That's why you have to take your time and see what's out there.

All I will tell you is that virtually EVERYONE Ive talked to has thought the OCR2 was a fantastic bike...excellent bang for the buck. Ive had mine for about three weeks and over the weekend I just took it out on a 50 mile ride....It felt great. Mine weighs in at 19 pounds (22 lbs. stock) with a changed out stem and crankset/cassete upgrade to 105. Its a great sport/ training bike. The frame weighs 3 pounds and is butted ALUXX aluminum. If someone thinks thats heavy then I have to disagree. Giants TCR series which are about the lightest on the market have frames that weigh in at about 2.5 pounds. If I put a carbon fork on the bike I could cut weight even more.
Dont rule out any bike based on one persons opinon. Go and check out Cycling Plus (the message board) they have some very positive things to say about the bike there. That, and go ride one. Then make your choice. There will always be people who dont agree with your choice.

yep..I know :)
I'm starting work tomorrow at a local bike shop...I plan to take all their nice road bikes out for a spin around the neighbourhood hehe.