On Becoming A Real Man
12-02-08, 09:57 PM
#451
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12-02-08, 10:06 PM
#452
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I didn't open up this thread until now. I just want to say that when I first came around BF, I asked a lot of stupid questions and was treated with patience and respect. Seriously. I couldn't even remember how to F-ing put air in a tire! No one condescended to me, just reminded me about the valve thingy. Seems there was more of a spirit of helpfulness on this forum to balance out the elitism and frat house sh-t.
I dunno, don't care really... the Benadryl is kicking in...
I dunno, don't care really... the Benadryl is kicking in...
12-03-08, 05:05 AM
#453
Senior Member
Maybe create a subforum like the Road Racing forum and call it Newbies. That way, all traffic from newbies can be directed to that sub-forum, and some nice, kind, empathetic and knowledgable members can be mentors there.
Of course, it would require a lot of work by moderators to ensure new threads started by newbs in the main Road forum were moved.
It sort of means that we have primary school (newbs), secondary school (Road) and high school (Racing) and no-one feels like they are at risk of being bullied by some big bad senior.
Yeah, I know... crap idea.
But hey, if the thread had been closed earlier, we would have missed out on chipcom's truly classic repartee with the lifp... I haven't laughed so much here for a long, long time.
Of course, it would require a lot of work by moderators to ensure new threads started by newbs in the main Road forum were moved.
It sort of means that we have primary school (newbs), secondary school (Road) and high school (Racing) and no-one feels like they are at risk of being bullied by some big bad senior.
Yeah, I know... crap idea.
But hey, if the thread had been closed earlier, we would have missed out on chipcom's truly classic repartee with the lifp... I haven't laughed so much here for a long, long time.
12-03-08, 05:21 AM
#455
Senior Member
Oh yeah, I forgot, everyone wants a quickie graduation to expert status. Explains why so many newbies want to argue with the experienced people round here.
Actually, I think the OP in the other thread was a stooge, a patsy, set up to create this sort of discussion and to allow the mods to wade in yet again with their perspectives (all of which I respect -- well, almost all).
Significant, I think, is that the active membership is hovering in the very, very, very low 16,000 range, and threatened to drop into the 15,000 range in the past week except for an odd surge of 50 or so new members. That has dropped active membership down to less than 12% of total. A worrying trend for the owners...
Actually, I think the OP in the other thread was a stooge, a patsy, set up to create this sort of discussion and to allow the mods to wade in yet again with their perspectives (all of which I respect -- well, almost all).
Significant, I think, is that the active membership is hovering in the very, very, very low 16,000 range, and threatened to drop into the 15,000 range in the past week except for an odd surge of 50 or so new members. That has dropped active membership down to less than 12% of total. A worrying trend for the owners...
12-03-08, 05:31 AM
#456
out walking the earth
I've been admining and moderating boards since 1993. Many boards, especially active ones, have separate threads where people can 'try' to be funny, rant, rave, hook-up (read: 3>). In a theoretical sense foo fulfills that purpose here. The pragmatics of it though is that BF is so large, with so many active communities foo is a separate universe. People want to keep it in here because these are the people they know. That kind of pressure release valve is a good place to move off topic stuff, racier humor, and eventually people will likely just gravitate there.
12-03-08, 05:49 AM
#457
Senior Member
Yes, the mods tried moving some of the threads considered to be "off topic" from here to Foo, but the threads died because very very few of the Foo members actually ever pop their heads out of the basement to see what is going on in the rest of BFs. Much less Road members going down to Foo to see what's happening.
There was even an example in the past week where a poster started a thread on a 200km randonnee she had done by posting it in Foo because she didn't know anyone in Long Distance. My comment that she wouldn't get to know anyone in LD unless she posted there, was studiously ignored.
The experiment of removing threads from here to Foo failed. A Road Foo might be an option, but unfortunately, it would be doomed, too, because the simple fact is that Road has a certain culture or aura to it. You either like it or leave it. In that regard, it's a pretty simple choice.
There was even an example in the past week where a poster started a thread on a 200km randonnee she had done by posting it in Foo because she didn't know anyone in Long Distance. My comment that she wouldn't get to know anyone in LD unless she posted there, was studiously ignored.
The experiment of removing threads from here to Foo failed. A Road Foo might be an option, but unfortunately, it would be doomed, too, because the simple fact is that Road has a certain culture or aura to it. You either like it or leave it. In that regard, it's a pretty simple choice.
12-03-08, 06:16 AM
#459
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If you post on any forum you have to expect to get burned at some time or other. It is inevitable. Take it, don't post or become an ethug...there are plenty of them out there.
12-03-08, 06:30 AM
#460
I eat carbide.
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Yes, the mods tried moving some of the threads considered to be "off topic" from here to Foo, but the threads died because very very few of the Foo members actually ever pop their heads out of the basement to see what is going on in the rest of BFs. Much less Road members going down to Foo to see what's happening.
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12-03-08, 06:44 AM
#462
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This thread proves the internet is serious business!
12-03-08, 07:42 AM
#463
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Another idea is to add to the "Please Read First" sticky a suggestion that all serious noob questions be posted in either the Bicycle Mechanics forum or the General Cycling Discussion forum. Of all the great advice I've received on BF, that is where the best and most patient advice on mechanics and fit come from. As far as noob questions go, the Road forum should only be used to ask if Product X is worth $X.
Yeah. Unless your intent is to compare this forum to high school.
Yeah. Unless your intent is to compare this forum to high school.
12-03-08, 09:16 AM
#464
I eat carbide.
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Another idea is to add to the "Please Read First" sticky a suggestion that all serious noob questions be posted in either the Bicycle Mechanics forum or the General Cycling Discussion forum. Of all the great advice I've received on BF, that is where the best and most patient advice on mechanics and fit come from. As far as noob questions go, the Road forum should only be used to ask if Product X is worth $X.
Yeah. Unless your intent is to compare this forum to high school.
Yeah. Unless your intent is to compare this forum to high school.
Seriously I miss all of the mechanical questions that used to pop up in here. I tried mechanics forum off and on over the years, but just too lame for me. Not enough flair. No banter. Too many single reply threads.
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12-03-08, 09:38 AM
#469
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I thought nobody was a real man until they did Mont Ventoux...
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12-03-08, 11:17 AM
#471
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20 pages later and you guys still don't get the OP's point. Instead, many of you keep responding with posts that try and justify your reactions by dissecting and asking "what did I say that was so wrong" or "show me where I was mean" rather than seeing the OP's point about the general "tone" in which some of you respond. But that is the prototypical personality trait of some of you obsessive and overly competitive contrarians who don't even want to concede a point in a discussion. You respond for 20 pages to try and justify why it is o.k. to be an *****hole.
I am all for the ribbing if the person is in on the joke. Hell, I listen to Howard Stern and love a Roast where nothing is sacred. But there is an element here and amongst the "Roadie" crowd that obviously touches a nerve with some as this topic keeps coming up (ie, who's a Fred, poseur etc). If it walks like a duck. Being an A-hole on the internet is easy and some of you never dissapoint. Pcad can call me "arrogant" because I confront that element here every now an again but in the grand scheme of things, this is all silly (see our economy and misguided war in Iraq etc.)
Whether you can admit it or even recognize a sense of elitism, arrogance and snobbery amongst this subculture, that is an individual's choice or potential inability to be insightful enough see it, but it exists.
I am all for the ribbing if the person is in on the joke. Hell, I listen to Howard Stern and love a Roast where nothing is sacred. But there is an element here and amongst the "Roadie" crowd that obviously touches a nerve with some as this topic keeps coming up (ie, who's a Fred, poseur etc). If it walks like a duck. Being an A-hole on the internet is easy and some of you never dissapoint. Pcad can call me "arrogant" because I confront that element here every now an again but in the grand scheme of things, this is all silly (see our economy and misguided war in Iraq etc.)
Whether you can admit it or even recognize a sense of elitism, arrogance and snobbery amongst this subculture, that is an individual's choice or potential inability to be insightful enough see it, but it exists.
subtitled: How hard is it to be tolerant of someone not yet up to your standards?
There was a thread started here this morning by a new, young rider asking for comments on his bike. As usual several posters jumped at the apparently irresistible opportunity to blast the guy. Not surprising around here . . . inexcusable, yes, but sadly not surprising. Sure his bike had issues, but what do you expect from a new roadie?
What really appalled me was the excuses -- somehow some guys felt justified in their insensitivities. Somehow some guys feel being mean to other people makes them a man, in their own feeble miscalculations. This too is typical . . . among the weak. They feel that insulting and injuring others makes them feel better about themselves and enhances their masculinity.
You don't need to be a psychologist to decipher this . . . it's transparent, it's glaring, and it's pathetic.
I have a suggestion -- if you find yourself so lacking in self-esteem in your life, do what a real man would do and work on your insecurities. Do some research -- the internet is conveniently at your disposal -- and spend more time working on correcting your shortcomings instead of lurking around internet forums pouncing on the defenseless.
Internet muscles disappear when you're face-to-face.
Disclaimer:
I'm addressing just a handful of individuals, clearly not the majority. I'm adverse to internet conflict so I won't name names . . . they know who they are, they walk around with a perpetual chip on their shoulders.
My apologies to the rest of the forum that these unpleasantries had to be addressed . . . and the Mods mercifully closed the thread before I could get this in.
End of Rant.
There was a thread started here this morning by a new, young rider asking for comments on his bike. As usual several posters jumped at the apparently irresistible opportunity to blast the guy. Not surprising around here . . . inexcusable, yes, but sadly not surprising. Sure his bike had issues, but what do you expect from a new roadie?
What really appalled me was the excuses -- somehow some guys felt justified in their insensitivities. Somehow some guys feel being mean to other people makes them a man, in their own feeble miscalculations. This too is typical . . . among the weak. They feel that insulting and injuring others makes them feel better about themselves and enhances their masculinity.
You don't need to be a psychologist to decipher this . . . it's transparent, it's glaring, and it's pathetic.
I have a suggestion -- if you find yourself so lacking in self-esteem in your life, do what a real man would do and work on your insecurities. Do some research -- the internet is conveniently at your disposal -- and spend more time working on correcting your shortcomings instead of lurking around internet forums pouncing on the defenseless.
Internet muscles disappear when you're face-to-face.
Disclaimer:
I'm addressing just a handful of individuals, clearly not the majority. I'm adverse to internet conflict so I won't name names . . . they know who they are, they walk around with a perpetual chip on their shoulders.
My apologies to the rest of the forum that these unpleasantries had to be addressed . . . and the Mods mercifully closed the thread before I could get this in.
End of Rant.
12-03-08, 11:21 AM
#472
Peloton Shelter Dog
20 pages later and you guys still don't get the OP's point. Instead, many of you keep responding with posts that try and justify your reactions by dissecting and asking "what did I say that was so wrong" or "show me where I was mean" rather than seeing the OP's point about the general "tone" in which some of you respond. But that is the prototypical personality trait of some of you obsessive and overly competitive contrarians who don't even want to concede a point in a discussion. You respond for 20 pages to try and justify why it is o.k. to be an *****hole.
I am all for the ribbing if the person is in on the joke. Hell, I listen to Howard Stern and love a Roast where nothing is sacred. But there is an element here and amongst the "Roadie" crowd that obviously touches a nerve with some as this topic keeps coming up (ie, who's a Fred, poseur etc). If it walks like a duck. Being an A-hole on the internet is easy and some of you never dissapoint. Pcad can call me "arrogant" because I confront that element here every now an again but in the grand scheme of things, this is all silly (see our economy and misguided war in Iraq etc.)
Whether you can admit it or even recognize a sense of elitism, arrogance and snobbery amongst this subculture, that is an individual's choice or potential inability to be insightful enough see it, but it exists.
I am all for the ribbing if the person is in on the joke. Hell, I listen to Howard Stern and love a Roast where nothing is sacred. But there is an element here and amongst the "Roadie" crowd that obviously touches a nerve with some as this topic keeps coming up (ie, who's a Fred, poseur etc). If it walks like a duck. Being an A-hole on the internet is easy and some of you never dissapoint. Pcad can call me "arrogant" because I confront that element here every now an again but in the grand scheme of things, this is all silly (see our economy and misguided war in Iraq etc.)
Whether you can admit it or even recognize a sense of elitism, arrogance and snobbery amongst this subculture, that is an individual's choice or potential inability to be insightful enough see it, but it exists.
12-03-08, 11:24 AM
#473
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Actually, 20 pages later and you still don't 'get' that most of us 'got it' on page one, if not before, and are merely having a little fun with yet another out-of-control stoopid thread were we can watch people like you take it seriously and try to display their self-perceived superiority...while we laugh at you for being so utterly tight-arsed, vain and foolish.
BRAVO, YOU ARE DA MAN!
BRAVO, YOU ARE DA MAN!
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
12-03-08, 11:28 AM
#474
well hello there
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
12-03-08, 11:32 AM
#475
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20 pages later and you guys still don't get the OP's point. Instead, many of you keep responding with posts that try and justify your reactions by dissecting and asking "what did I say that was so wrong" or "show me where I was mean" rather than seeing the OP's point about the general "tone" in which some of you respond. But that is the prototypical personality trait of some of you obsessive and overly competitive contrarians who don't even want to concede a point in a discussion. You respond for 20 pages to try and justify why it is o.k. to be an *****hole.
I am all for the ribbing if the person is in on the joke. Hell, I listen to Howard Stern and love a Roast where nothing is sacred. But there is an element here and amongst the "Roadie" crowd that obviously touches a nerve with some as this topic keeps coming up (ie, who's a Fred, poseur etc). If it walks like a duck. Being an A-hole on the internet is easy and some of you never dissapoint. Pcad can call me "arrogant" because I confront that element here every now an again but in the grand scheme of things, this is all silly (see our economy and misguided war in Iraq etc.)
Whether you can admit it or even recognize a sense of elitism, arrogance and snobbery amongst this subculture, that is an individual's choice or potential inability to be insightful enough see it, but it exists.
I am all for the ribbing if the person is in on the joke. Hell, I listen to Howard Stern and love a Roast where nothing is sacred. But there is an element here and amongst the "Roadie" crowd that obviously touches a nerve with some as this topic keeps coming up (ie, who's a Fred, poseur etc). If it walks like a duck. Being an A-hole on the internet is easy and some of you never dissapoint. Pcad can call me "arrogant" because I confront that element here every now an again but in the grand scheme of things, this is all silly (see our economy and misguided war in Iraq etc.)
Whether you can admit it or even recognize a sense of elitism, arrogance and snobbery amongst this subculture, that is an individual's choice or potential inability to be insightful enough see it, but it exists.
Let's move beyond the thread that prompted this thread, I think we've beaten it to death. I admit that my words "stupid" and "fail" should have been softer, but I did read the thread as somewhat of a joke and the person asked to be judged so I obliged. If they had just said something like "my hands are uncomfortable, would bullhorns be better?" I at least would have taken it more seriously and they would have gotten different responses from everyone.