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Cervelo S3 and Campy Super Record Gruppo Issues

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Cervelo S3 and Campy Super Record Gruppo Issues

Old 01-07-09, 08:09 PM
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Cervelo S3 and Campy Super Record Gruppo Issues

Now according to Cervelo issues are arising with the Campy Super Record Gruppo on the new S3. The Campy Super Record on the S3 may or not fit. It will fit some S3 frames and not fit other S3 frames. It is apparently luck of the draw. Cervelo also states that most Campy wheels will not fit the S3. After this I am giving up on the S3. I will wait until they get the issues worked out. Below is the Cervelo email to me and my earlier email to them asking questions.



Hello Paul,

Tolerances on the Campy Super Record Groupo are very tight. Some frames do not have issues and some do. The best thing to do is have the shop you purchase your S3 from test the frame before they sell it to you. In doing that you will ensure you components will fit before you pay for the bike.

As for the wheels it all depends on the hub. It is impossible for us to test every wheel, from every company, from every year. If you measure from the axle lock nut to the outer most surface of the non drive side spoke, at a measurement of 22 mm forward from the axle center, anything less than 30 mm might be an issue. Still the rider’s weight and riding style will play a factor as both affect how much the wheel will flex. Most Campy wheels are not compatible with the S3 however.

Thank you for your support,

Sincerely,

Chris Bastie

Toll Free: 1-866-Cervelo
Phone: 1-416-425-9517 ext. 232
Fax: 1-416-425-6795
Website: www.cervelo.com | www.cervelo.tv



05-Jan-2009 22:31:01
Paul Harding

Hello,

I am in the process of placing an order for a Cervelo S3. Is a braze-on front dérailleur the correct one to use? How well does the Campy Super Record Gruppo work with the S3? Do the Edge Composite Wheels 38 Clincher, 41 mm, fit the S3? Thanks for making great bikes.

Paul Harding
Chicago

Last edited by pharding; 01-07-09 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 01-07-09, 08:21 PM
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Oh well. No such issues with the S2 phardy. That's what I'll have soon. This seems largely related to the redesign of those rear stays on that S3, the SLC last year didn't have those issues. The S2 frame remains the same from 2008 to 09 (same as the Carbon Soloist) except for new paint and improved internal cable routing arrangement.

I'll post impressions here if I ever get the bike. Ships Jan. 30, should have it early Feb.

Glad you found out all this before you got the bike. Try something else. Hell, try an S2. I really didn't think the S3 was worth such a fat premium. The S2 frame only weighs about 1100 grams. That's pretty light. Everybody I know who has the Carbon Soloist swears by the bike, and I've spoken to 5 or 6 locals who I ride/race with who have had it for some time.
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Old 01-07-09, 08:21 PM
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what's the problem? nobody cares about this but you and it looks like you got pretty clear instructions on what to do in that email.
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Old 01-07-09, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by freeskihp
what's the problem? nobody cares about this but you and it looks like you got pretty clear instructions on what to do in that email.
Nobody cares about cycling except us. What's your point?
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Old 01-07-09, 08:24 PM
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Old 01-07-09, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pharding
Tolerances on the Campy Super Record Groupo are very tight. Some frames do not have issues and some do.
What tolerances? What parts?

How can a Record Group work and not a SR group? There are no design differences just material differences.

There are volumous books at frame and assembly factories that cover every possible dimension on a frame. Groups are designed to work to that.

There are a few tolerances that differ between a frame designed for Shimano and one designed for Campagnolo. The principal ones are the positioning of a FR DER braze-on and the shape of the DS dropout (in terms of space needed for clearance on the smallest cog (11, 12 or 13T).

Is this what we are talking about?
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Old 01-07-09, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
What tolerances? What parts?

How can a Record Group work and not a SR group? There are no design differences just material differences.

There are volumous books at frame and assembly factories that cover every possible dimension on a frame. Groups are designed to work to that.

There are a few tolerances that differ between a frame designed for Shimano and one designed for Campagnolo. The principal ones are the positioning of a FR DER braze-on and the shape of the DS dropout (in terms of space needed for clearance on the smallest cog (11, 12 or 13T).

Is this what we are talking about?
It sounds like the tolerances were engineered to be rather tight. Then when the frames were manufactured variances were greater than anticipated.

While at Vision Quest today I also heard that the Cervelo P4 was not UCI certified. Cervelo has to modify the design. Apparently it will be a simple design change is required to the frameset.
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Old 01-07-09, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pharding
It sounds like the tolerances were engineered to be rather tight. Then when the frames were manufactured variances were greater than anticipated.
Again, what SPECIFIC tolerances and how can one Campagnolo group fit and not another?
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Old 01-07-09, 08:54 PM
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SR is just a blinged out record group. If SR does not fit, then no campy will fit
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Old 01-07-09, 08:55 PM
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Don't you think Campy lovers deserves whatever happens to them?
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Old 01-07-09, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by nitropowered
SR is just a blinged out record group. If SR does not fit, then no campy will fit
Thanks for the second.

That is exactly my point.
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Old 01-07-09, 09:01 PM
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I'm really glad I noticed this thread. I was very close to making the decision to purchase an S3. But with all of the fitment issues this bike I had to speak to my LBS about whether or not this is the bike for me. I wanted a few things on the bike and had the shop try it out before I made the purchase. You heard it here first: My X-BOX 360 does not fit on the front handlebars and the front pannier I had picked out to hold by 37" plasma will not work with the fork due to "tolerance issues". It seems to me that Cervelos Engineer's really sh&$ the bed on this one for sure.
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Old 01-07-09, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pharding
It sounds like the tolerances were engineered to be rather tight. Then when the frames were manufactured variances were greater than anticipated.

Apologies in advance, I'm a bit pedantic at times.

Do you understand the purpose of tolerances? Your new buddy Chris does not.

Last edited by StupidlyBrave; 01-07-09 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 01-07-09, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pharding
It sounds like the tolerances were engineered to be rather tight. Then when the frames were manufactured variances were greater than anticipated.

While at Vision Quest today I also heard that the Cervelo P4 was not UCI certified. Cervelo has to modify the design. Apparently it will be a simple design change is required to the frameset.
Welcome to Cervelo's quality control. On my P3c I had to shim my SRM crank out almost 2mm to get it to clear the chainstay, which made for a not so good chain line. Other people were running the same unit and BB and had 2mm clearance. I could make a list of things between that and the P2 I owned that were just stupid.

The P4 UCI thing is likely a dodge to explain why people are going to getting their frames even later than promised. I LMAO'd when they were telling people early December at Interbike and their show models still had file marks.

Great concept engineering. Final product not always so good.

Last edited by Racer Ex; 01-07-09 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 01-07-09, 10:20 PM
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Campy on a Cervelo = lipstick on a pig.
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Old 01-07-09, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by freeskihp
what's the problem? nobody cares about this but you and it looks like you got pretty clear instructions on what to do in that email.
Is this necessary? Not to defend the OP, but this is a bike forum where people talk about bikes and cycling. Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I think Cervelo's equipment compatibility issues is an interesting topic.

Speaking of equipment issues, how about that R-Sys recall? Yikes...
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Old 01-07-09, 10:42 PM
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Hello Paul,

Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh. HHhhhhhhmmmmmmm. Ain't that some ****. Anything else I can help you out with today?

Thank you for your support,

Sincerely,

Chris Bastie

Toll Free: 1-866-Cervelo
Phone: 1-416-425-9517 ext. 232
Fax: 1-416-425-6795
Website: www.cervelo.com | www.cervelo.tv
The revised version.
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Old 01-07-09, 10:45 PM
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Hmmm...

Interesting...

I was unable to get a triple derailer to work on my RS (I was going to build a frankenclimbingbike for my hillclimb races)...

The rear part of the FD would strike the chainstay...

Other said they got theirs to work with a couple mm of clearance...

I wonder...
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Old 01-07-09, 11:08 PM
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OP - I wish I had your problems
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Old 01-07-09, 11:21 PM
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OP - is this yours?

Nice job.

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Old 01-07-09, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dick Rhee
Speaking of equipment issues, how about that R-Sys recall? Yikes...
Yeah, something that actually affects me. FWIW, the clearance between the R-SYS spokes and the chainstays on my Tarmac SL2 are only a few mm. Although I think chainstay is a bit of an understatement for these things, and on the S3 too.
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Old 01-07-09, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dick Rhee
Is this necessary? Not to defend the OP, but this is a bike forum where people talk about bikes and cycling. Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I think Cervelo's equipment compatibility issues is an interesting topic.
Yes, it would be an interesting topic, except Pharding seems to pick apart Cervelo's, yet wants to buy Cervelo. For every thread that is pro-Cervelo via Pharding, there is one that slams it. It's comical. Cervelo will probably on sell one S3 frame this year due to all the bad press he's given them - and he'll be the one who bought it.
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Old 01-08-09, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by BengeBoy
OP - is this yours?

Nice job.

Yes
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Old 01-08-09, 03:54 AM
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This is a fascinating article with very interesting photos showing Cervelo's bold, innovative design for the chainstays that undoubtedly has looser tolerances in the final product than Cervelo envisioned. I don't expect Campy to sign up for a test team sponsorship.

https://www.daviswheelworks.com/image...tay_detail.pdf

Last edited by pharding; 01-08-09 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 01-08-09, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by pharding
This is a fascinating article with very interesting photos showing Cervelo's bold, innovative design for the chainstays that undoubtedly has tighter tolerances in the final product than Cervelo envisioned. I don't expect Campy to sign up for a test team sponsorship.

https://www.daviswheelworks.com/image...tay_detail.pdf

FATAL ATTRACTION PART 3
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