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Damn Cops

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Damn Cops

Old 01-20-09, 11:16 AM
  #1  
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Damn Cops

Looks like I can't win. Ride in the bikelane, get hit by asshat drivers who don't look before turning. Take the lane and get cited by cops who don't have two brain cells to rub together and misquote the vehicle code.

The stretch of road where I was cited is basically a strip mall with continual driveways and curbside parking along the length. I was hit by a car turning into one of the driveways in September and broke my ribs.

This is the code:
21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.

Last edited by umd; 01-20-09 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:25 AM
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They seriously gave you a ticket? Wow. Brilliant.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:25 AM
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"bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do?"

"whatcha gonna do when they come for you?!"


that sucks man.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:26 AM
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Cited and more importantly "FINED"?
Damn, bad break. Hopefully the fine was nominal but I know here in NJ there are no nominal fines. (even something as innocuous as a seat belt fine here in NJ will run about $145 which could score a quality jersey, two Conti 4000S' and new tubes)
Sorry for your misfortune. Might be worth contesting it in court - depending on the municipality.

If they are revenue based, you are doomed. If the judge has a conscience and you can justify the reason for leaving the bike lane, you got a good shot.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:26 AM
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I should add it's slightly downhill and usually ride it at 25-30mph, generally keep up with the speed of traffic, or at least catch up with traffic at lights. Traffic is generally light and there are two lanes.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:27 AM
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How much was it?
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Old 01-20-09, 11:29 AM
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I get so angry over cops.

In your case, I would think they should have lots more important things to do.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:30 AM
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There's no amount on the ticket, but bascially he wanted me to admit I was wrong and I wouldn't do it, got in an argument with him and he told me I would have to argue it in court. I told him I'd been hit by cars turning into those driveways and he didn't care. Tried to trod out the "I'm a cyclist too" BS. I asked him how much he rode and he said maybe 20 miles a week.

He's a double moron too cause now that I'm looking at the ticket he wrote an arrow that I was going North and I was clearly going West.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:37 AM
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Actually, if I'm not mistaken -- and I'm just a lawyer, so what do I know -- the part you highlighted is there to permit you to swing wide before turning right. Is that what you were doing? Or were you just out in the middle of the lane traveling with traffic?
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Old 01-20-09, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by umd
There's no amount on the ticket, but bascially he wanted me to admit I was wrong and I wouldn't do it, got in an argument with him and he told me I would have to argue it in court. I told him I'd been hit by cars turning into those driveways and he didn't care. Tried to trod out the "I'm a cyclist too" BS. I asked him how much he rode and he said maybe 20 miles a week.

He's a double moron too cause now that I'm looking at the ticket he wrote an arrow that I was going North and I was clearly going West.
I believe if there is any error on the ticket and you fight it, it will be thrown out.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo
Actually, if I'm not mistaken -- and I'm just a lawyer, so what do I know -- the part you highlighted is there to permit you to swing wide before turning right. Is that what you were doing? Or were you just out in the middle of the lane traveling with traffic?
No, it's to allow you to not get pinned to the curb by cars turning right on to side streets and driveways, e.g. at an intersection.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:42 AM
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at least he wrote on my ticket I was going 25 and not like 15 or something
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Old 01-20-09, 11:42 AM
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Never, ever, argue the matter on the side of the road. With anyone.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:43 AM
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Help me understand, too -- from the first post, it appears that you were in the normal right-hand lane and there was a bike lane also? (Or were you describing a different place?)
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Old 01-20-09, 11:43 AM
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What are the odds of you getting it thrown out in court?

Lots of bikes in SB as far as I could tell, but that may mean more resentment rather than acceptance.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by umd
No, it's to allow you to not get pinned to the curb by cars turning right on to side streets and driveways, e.g. at an intersection.
I think the judge -- biker or not -- is going to disagree with you. I think you're reading it wrong. Interpreting it as you do, no biker would ever be required to keep to the right except in isolated rural areas (where the law doesn't apply anyway).

But you were just riding along in the middle of the lane going straight, right? (I think you've got a decent argument if you were in the middle of the lane, but in the process of turning right. Are you SURE you weren't in the process of turning right to visit that pet store / drycleaners?)
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Old 01-20-09, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by CastIron
Never, ever, argue the matter on the side of the road. With anyone.
We were actually still moving when he started to yell at me. By the time he pulled me over he was already going to write me the ticket.

Originally Posted by FlashBazbo
Help me understand, too -- from the first post, it appears that you were in the normal right-hand lane and there was a bike lane also? (Or were you describing a different place?)
There were two lanes and a bike lane and a parking lane and we were approaching a right turn lane that crosses over the bike lane (i.e. the bike lane end up on the left side of it). I was in the rightmost traffic lane, which I have done since I was hit by a car turning into one of those driveways.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo
I think the judge -- biker or not -- is going to disagree with you. I think you're reading it wrong. Interpreting it as you do, no biker would ever be required to keep to the right except in isolated rural areas (where the law doesn't apply anyway).
Most places there are not driveways every 10 feet as on this one stretch of road, which is pretty much the only place in town I do this. But regardless, the law as written is at least intended to apply to intersections, to come out of the bike lane so that cars can make a right turn without you obstructing them.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:57 AM
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Sounds like the cop woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Did others get cited as well?

Well, at least we know where you'll be on the court date listed on your ticket.

I'm not much of a betting man, but on that day, my money's on umd.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:58 AM
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umd, if you're going to argue this, you need to focus on the words under paragraph(a): "as close as practicable" You've GOT to convince the judge that being that far out in the road was "as close as practicable" to the right hand side of the road as you could safely ride. Make the same arguments you've made here. And good luck. (The presence of a bike lane AND a parking lane AND half of the traffic lane to your right hurt you a lot.)

Your interpretation of subparagraph (a)(4) won't be taken seriously. They'll figure you just don't understand.
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Old 01-20-09, 11:59 AM
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Ain't CA great?
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Old 01-20-09, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by guidofistpump
Maybe you should slow down.
How do you figure?
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Old 01-20-09, 12:19 PM
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Instead of being an AH back why not try to educate the public with the help of other cyclist organizations.

Here in FL we actually enjoy having a the police arround. I got "brushed" by a car and the cop behind us nailed the driver of the car with a ticket for the 3 ft rule in FL. Couple on a tandem blew a stop sign and got stopped on a group ride I was on. Both cases were fair and equally treated. Join something like
https://www.floridabicycle.org/index.html as education does a lot more than a rant and improves our image in the general public's perception of all cyclist.
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Old 01-20-09, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo
umd, if you're going to argue this, you need to focus on the words under paragraph(a): "as close as practicable" You've GOT to convince the judge that being that far out in the road was "as close as practicable" to the right hand side of the road as you could safely ride. Make the same arguments you've made here. And good luck. (The presence of a bike lane AND a parking lane AND half of the traffic lane to your right hurt you a lot.)
I agree with UMD's reading. (4) is an exception to (a), so we don't have to worry about what (a) says. The wording of (4) is quite specific. It says "where a right turn is authorized", clearly omitting any condition on whether or not the cyclist was going to turn.
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Old 01-20-09, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by nafun
I agree with UMD's reading. (4) is an exception to (a), so we don't have to worry about what (a) says. The wording of (4) is quite specific. It says "where a right turn is authorized", clearly omitting any condition on whether or not the cyclist was going to turn.
Same here. I see no condition on anyone turning, just the possibility of someone turning.

Either way, it's not safe to ride in the bike lane when people are making right turns in a busy area. You getting hit in this very area should be enough to prove that.

You should definitely be able to fight this. Even ignoring condition 4, using your experience as a cyclist you felt it was not safe to ride any farther to the right of the lane. It's as simple as that. Nobody should be able to argue against using your experience to keep yourself safe.
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