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How much of a difference will it make

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How much of a difference will it make

Old 02-19-09, 09:28 PM
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How much of a difference will it make

if I switch from 30mm alloy clinchers that weigh 2015g to a 19-22mm set that weighs around 1300g (such as the Soul 2.0s)?

Specifically for climbing, since I have read that removing this much weight from a road bike makes a huge difference, and that the wheel weight makes even more difference.
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Old 02-19-09, 09:28 PM
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Probably only worthwhile if you are already ripped.
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Old 02-19-09, 11:08 PM
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2015g - 1300g = 715g difference.
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Old 02-19-09, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by allstar255
if I switch from 30mm alloy clinchers that weigh 2015g to a 19-22mm set that weighs around 1300g (such as the Soul 2.0s)?

Specifically for climbing, since I have read that removing this much weight from a road bike makes a huge difference, and that the wheel weight makes even more difference.
That's about 1.5 lb. Since my bike and I weigh 165 lb together, that's less than a 1% difference. But I'd still get a set of lightweight wheels and justify it any way I could.
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Old 02-19-09, 11:15 PM
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you probably won't notice the difference.
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Old 02-19-09, 11:20 PM
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On a 4000 foot mountain climb, the weight difference might save you a minute or two. That's a huge difference to a racer, but probably insignificant to most recreational riders.
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Old 02-19-09, 11:24 PM
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Between my '05 Campagnolo Ventos 2000g and my open pros/chorus around 1500g I notice a difference accelerating and climbing with the lighter set. The Ventos being deeper I'm slightly faster on flat terrain. I only use the Ventos on the trainer now.
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Old 02-19-09, 11:31 PM
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I think you'll notice it. Don't underestimate the difference between a really bad weelset and a good one. My first bike, a Giant Ocr3 (real entry level bike) came with some crappy alex DR13 wheels. When I bought a used set of wheels (dura ace 7700 hubs, mavic reflex rims) the change transformed the bike. Note, it may not just have been the weight but also the quality improvement. Also, switching to better quality tires helps a lot.

Lighter wheels will "feel" faster and spin up quick but once you have them up to speed you wont notice any improvement, as heavier wheels, when up to speed have greater inertia.
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Old 02-20-09, 01:05 AM
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the light wheels will feel good, but won't 'spin up' any faster. bicycle wheels don't spin fast enough for it to make a differnce. it you want something to spin up fast go buy a yamaha R6 or honda cbr600rr
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Old 02-20-09, 01:29 AM
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I ride a single speed, and I recently switched out a pair of ~1700g Ksyrium Elites (22 mm front, 25 mm back) to a pair of old-school aluminum Campagnolo Shamals, which are like 2000g with 40 mm rims.

There's definitely a difference, and I've been riding long enough to know I'm not imagining it. I also do everything in only one gear combination and I commute along the same route every morning, so this is a relatively controlled experiment.

The results: Acceleration from complete stops is noticeably more sluggish with these big fat Campy wheels, and climbing at low cadences requires more effort per stroke than an extra 300 grams would normally suggest - I feel like I have to rock my hips more and really get into each stroke to keep my momentum. However, once the aero wheels get up to speed, it does feel easier to stay there - it's as if each stroke is a light step as opposed to a effortful stomp.

So if I were to do the inverse of that, which is what you are trying to do, you would likely experience the opposite results. Climbing and acceleration would feel more sprightly, and you might have to work a little harder to maintain high speeds.
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Old 02-20-09, 02:42 AM
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In terms of climbing, losing 20-lbs of flab made the biggest difference. Dropped my times on a local 3500ft climb from 55 to 42 minutes. Shaving 1.5-lbs off as a test one time, I went up without two water-bottles and saved about a little more than 1 minute.
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Old 02-20-09, 07:19 AM
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Depends on how the wheel is constructed. It could benefit a lot on flat terrain, or while climbing, or while sprinting. Hard to tell without riding them first.

When I switched from Aksiums to Ksyrium Elites, I felt that my climbing improved a little, but my effort on flat terrain actually went up.
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Old 02-20-09, 08:02 AM
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They will feel a lot faster, particularly accelerating. They will shave a few seconds on climbs.

They may however, be slower on the flats, if they are less aerodynamic. Ceterus peribus, the deeper rims will usually be more aero.
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Old 02-20-09, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by the beef
I ride a single speed, and I recently switched out a pair of ~1700g Ksyrium Elites (22 mm front, 25 mm back) to a pair of old-school aluminum Campagnolo Shamals, which are like 2000g with 40 mm rims.

There's definitely a difference, and I've been riding long enough to know I'm not imagining it. I also do everything in only one gear combination and I commute along the same route every morning, so this is a relatively controlled experiment.

The results: Acceleration from complete stops is noticeably more sluggish with these big fat Campy wheels, and climbing at low cadences requires more effort per stroke than an extra 300 grams would normally suggest - I feel like I have to rock my hips more and really get into each stroke to keep my momentum. However, once the aero wheels get up to speed, it does feel easier to stay there - it's as if each stroke is a light step as opposed to a effortful stomp.

So if I were to do the inverse of that, which is what you are trying to do, you would likely experience the opposite results. Climbing and acceleration would feel more sprightly, and you might have to work a little harder to maintain high speeds.
Beef, were you using the same TIRES with these?

I am asking because I think good vs so-so tires make more of a difference than good vs so-so wheels.

Just wondering.

ps I just noticed the 40mm vs 25 mm width, so the answer is probably no. I suspect a lot of the difference you noted was from the tire rather than the wheel per se.
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Old 02-20-09, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by zzzwillzzz
the light wheels will feel good, but won't 'spin up' any faster. bicycle wheels don't spin fast enough for it to make a differnce.
Hard to tell if he's trolling here.
But they will spin up faster, they'll slow down faster too. Noticeably. The biggest change you can make to the feel of a bike is changing the tires and wheels. Dropping rotating weight two or three pounds is a big deal.
Not a major change to your overall hill climb times, though.
Intervals help with that. Noticeably.
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Old 02-20-09, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by AEO
you probably won't notice the difference, except for the psychological placebo effect, which will make you noticeably faster.
Fixed.
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Old 02-20-09, 10:55 AM
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Bicycle Quarterly calculated the affect tire weight makes in acceleration under the following circumstances that would create the biggest difference:

Total difference in tire weight: .88 lbs
Rider weight: 161 lbs.
Power output: 500 watts
Starting Speed: 2.25 mph

After six seconds both riders are at 22.2 mph and the rider with lighter tires is 6.7 inches ahead.
After 30 seconds both riders are at 38.6 mph and the rider with lighter tires is 2.4 ft ahead.

So it would make a difference in a race.

If the rider with the heavier tires put out 505 watts, a 1% increase, he would be even.

No matter what your tires weigh it would behoove you not to throw your hands in the air a few feet short of the finish line when the second, third and fourth fastest sprinters are right behind you and catching up.
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Old 02-20-09, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MKahrl
Bicycle Quarterly calculated the affect tire weight makes in acceleration under the following circumstances that would create the biggest difference:

Total difference in tire weight: .88 lbs
Rider weight: 161 lbs.
Power output: 500 watts
Starting Speed: 2.25 mph

After six seconds both riders are at 22.2 mph and the rider with lighter tires is 6.7 inches ahead.
After 30 seconds both riders are at 38.6 mph and the rider with lighter tires is 2.4 ft ahead.

So it would make a difference in a race from a standing start and only lasting about a minute long.

If the rider with the heavier tires put out 505 watts, a 1% increase, he would be even.

No matter what your tires weigh it would behoove you not to throw your hands in the air a few feet short of the finish line when the second, third and fourth fastest sprinters are right behind you and catching up.
Fixed. You have to keep in mind that, except for velodrome match sprints, the bikes are already rolling. Sure, acceleration still makes a difference in the final sprint, but so does the half our to 5 hours before that where the guy with heavier aero wheels was saving energy while cruising. Therefore, the guy with lighter but less aero wheels might not have 500 watts at the end. He might only have 480 and still lose.
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Old 02-20-09, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Beef, were you using the same TIRES with these?

I am asking because I think good vs so-so tires make more of a difference than good vs so-so wheels.

Just wondering.

ps I just noticed the 40mm vs 25 mm width, so the answer is probably no. I suspect a lot of the difference you noted was from the tire rather than the wheel per se.
40 mm and 25 mm = rim depth, not 'width'. And yes, I used the exact same tires and same tubes: 700x23 Michelin Pro2 Lights. Trust me dude, it was the wheels.

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Old 02-20-09, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by the beef
40 mm and 25 mm = rim depth, not 'width'. And yes, I used the exact same tires and same tubes: 700x23 Michelin Pro2 Lights.
Oh ok I get it. Sorry I misunderstood.
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Old 02-20-09, 12:27 PM
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the biggest difference is the amount of flex and plushness you'll feel between the two.
lower profiles allow the entire wheel to 'budge' more than a deep section.
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Old 02-20-09, 12:35 PM
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I will admit that I prefer lighter components in general just because I haul my bike up and down stairs. I picked up a set of used Mavic Heliums last summer for 140 and I think they are like 1500gs together. Seems like aero wheels hurt more than they help in crosswinds, right?
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