af2nr

I read in an article the other day, don't remember where, that most of the changes to Rival were made in 08 and 09 was more of a color change. Where as Force didn't change till 09. Can anyone confirm this? Is there anyway to tell 08 from prior years without using it? It seems you can get the "older" Rival, even new, for much less than the 09 and if color is the major difference then I can do without the black.

grolby

The differences between 08 and 09 are pretty significant. They are mostly in the levers, which have adjustable reach for both the brake lever shift lever, longer brake levers with a larger shift lever paddle, Zero Loss internals in the left shifter and carbon fiber brake levers. The crank is now a true hollow-forged OCT crank, and is available in more sizes, down to 165. Other than that, it's basically the same just black, but the changes are pretty significant. The group altogether is maybe 50 grams lighter than it used to be - only a touch heavier than DA 7800. Oh, and it looks badass and works great. I have it, it's good stuff.

kimconyc

Holy crap; there's been a lot of threads on this topic but I guess I'll bite.

The biggest change is the shifters in terms of how they look (carbon fiber) as well as their functionality. The two biggest changes are the micro-adjustment (Red has this) and also how the front shifts ("Zero Loss", also a Red feature). Force does not have Zero-Loss. '09 Rival does. This makes it quite a conundrum for Force.

There are some other small tweaks that take off weight from the '08 group, most notably the hollow crank. It's supposed to be lighter and stiffer. I ended up getting the '09 Rival with an '08 crank because it was around 40% less in terms of price and I actually like the chrome color. I also run a Red group on the other bike and I can say that Rival is nearly as good as Red. It doesn't have ceramic pulleys for the RD, weighs a bit more, and requires a little bit more throw for shifting but its nearly a third of the price!

https://www.velonews.com/article/75150

Lazyrider

Actually, the 09 Rival is lighter than Dura Ace 7800 and only 100 grams heavier than the new 7900 Dura Ace. I have 7800 and original Rival. Dura Ace shifts are like butter but the Rival works just the same. I am putting Rival 2009 on my new frame. Stuff looks awesome.

rizz

'09 Rival is definitely one of the best bang-for-the-buck groups out there. Works flawlessly, too. I've even had people compliment how well the front shifting works. What are the odds of that? 8)

kwrides

There have been a lot of threads on this lately, so searching the forums will help you, but here are a couple of my favorite articles on the subject. 09 Rival is significantly different.

https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...rival-09-33871

https://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/article/mps/uan/3234

umd

No, that is completely wrong. Rival and Force both changed for 2009. They both picked up most of the features from Red except for the zero-loss rear shifting. The appearance of Rival also changed, going to black, including carbon control levels.

umd

I do not believe that is true. All the articles talk about Rival being updated because that is "the big deal", but Force was updated as well.

e.g. https://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/article/mps/uan/3752

grolby

You are correct. Force has all of the updates that Rival does, with the exception of carbon levers and OCT crank (which it already had).

umd

Makes me wonder were people get their information from. Why would someone think that they updated Rival and not Force?

Val23708

why dont people use the search function first... this has been gone over like 20 times

umd

Such is the ways of bikeforums...

Dubbayoo

Technically there is no '08 Rival or Force. They both came out in '07 and stayed the same until '09. Only Red is '08 since that was the first year for that group.
For '09 all groups have zero-loss in front; only Red has it in the rear.

invwnut

I think the reason for many not thinking that Force didn't get updated is because there is so much buzz about Rival and Red. Force is not even talked about. People forget about it, it seems.

kimconyc

I didn't know they changed Force. I thought '08 Force was the same as '09...
Is there any reason to get Force though? It's like the middle child, so neglected

Oh yeah, on a side note, I noticed Team Jelly Belly was running Force on their GT's in the ToC

invwnut

That's what I thought also. It could be a teams way of saving some money. I'm guessing that most teams don't get free product. Force is a perfect blend of strength and performance at a compromise in cost.

Lazyrider

Force was updated but the difference in weight from 09 Rival is LESS THAN 100 grams. So functionally it is the same as Force but a lot more $. In fact most articles don't even consider Force as a viable alternative. Red is the only justifiable upgrade based on weight IMO

https://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/article/mps/uan/3234

umd

Not knowing is not a reason to assert a guess as fact. But I agree, not much point to Force.

af2nr

Part of the reason for "asking" instead of searching was because I was specifically asking about when the Rival changes took place not what changes took place. The Force and Rival groups were introduced in 06 also. I also talked to a SRAM rep at the LBS yesterday and there is no "carbon" in the 09 Rival, the shifter is aluminum with a "carbon wrap". Much like many of the cheaper "carbon wrapped" seatpost.

I know about the the changes but the article, I will look and find it, stated that Rival was updated with some of the Red improvements in 08. The only thing I know that had changed, other than appearance, was the crankset. I was also under the impression that all the trickle down from Red was new for 09 till that article. Guess if I would have been thinking about it I should have asked the rep yesterday?

umd

They changed it in 08 but it was not readily available until recently and it is marketed as 09, like car and bike models that come out at the tail end of the previous year. They had them and were talking about the improvements at least as early as Sea Otter (April) last year.

Jakedatc

So only the 09 shifters have the reach adjustment screws in the shifter and brake lever? i ask because thats one of the features that stands out to me

Dubbayoo

The non carbon Force/Rival cranks are available in more lengths and many don't like the ti cage on the Red FD. i went with Force (because I don't like the black Rival components) and a Red crankset because it was the only one offered in a 165mm compact.

umd

For Force and Rival, yes. Red of course has them as well.

Jakedatc

Good to know... at least i can look for the carbon levers and know it will have it right since that was upgraded at the same time

rizz

I also asked a rep a while back and he said it was full carbon. Either way, it still weighs less than the previous aluminum-only version.