patentcad

My LBS uses 3M Fast Tack. Cheap, available @ Home Depot, they're used it for nearly 20 years.



That's what I'll get.

Next question: what solvent will take this off your Zipps without destroying the CF?

Discuss.

TCR

Don't like Continental or Vittoria?

iab

I use Panaracer. And for removal I have found mineral spirits work better than acetone.

patentcad

Compare the cost of preposterously over-priced tubular-tire cycling-specific cement to 3M Fast Tack and you'll see why my LBS prefers the 3M product. I can buy a 5oz tube of Fast Tack for <$8.00. Rim cement is much more expensive.

It's just rubber cement boys.

Busta Quad

You'll drop the money for the Cervelo and the Zipps but whine about the price of a tube of glue?

HTFU

Busta Quad

patentcad

My LBS has been glueing up tubulars on Zipps with Fast Tack for a very long time. It works. It doesn't damage rims. It's cheap.

EivlEvo

PCad... I've been using the acetone and a toothbrush. It works... it just takes forever. I can see little balls of glue brushing off (like when a race car goes through a corner). Although, I'm not sure about mineral spirits. Reynolds specifically recommended acetone when I asked them about mineral spirits vs. acetone.

And it's not rubber cement, its contact cement.

EivlEvo

The fast tac is perfectly acceptable. It was in the glue holding value test. Here: https://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/Cusa1.pdf

patentcad

Well, rubber cement is contact cement, that's how it works. Whether Fast Tack is rubber cement, I don't know. I used to use rubber cement in commercial art, seemed just like stuff like Fast Tack or rim cement.

EivlEvo

What am I? A DOCTOR?!

briscoelab

I have used Fast Tac for a while on road tubulars. It's total rubbish for CX use. I find that Naptha (camp stove fuel) works great for removing it from rims. Also, brake parts cleaner works well (but you ahve to use the chlorinated kind... which is pretty nasty stuff)

Keep in mind.... fast tac isn't like normal tubular cement at all. Normal tubular glue is a real contact cement. You can take two surfaces with the glue one it.... (that are dry to the touch)... put them together and they stick.

Fast Tac, once dry, won't do that. The implications of this is that if, for some reason, you get a gap on the tire/rim interface that has seperated it won't re adhere like a normal tire would with tubular glue. Not only that, but once a part of the tire seperates it greatly increases the chances of the whole tire failing.... or coming off the rim like a zipper... all at once. This is obviously not so fun.

This isn't to say it's a bad glue to use. I still use it on road tires. It's fast and easy to glue with.... and you can ride a tire in like an hour after putting it on. But, please keep VERY close eyes on you tire and rim if you choose to use it. It's a VERY strong glue... often destroying the basetape on a tire if you need to remove it.

Other things to mention:

Fasttac doesn't like seeing a LOT of water. Some tubular tires are not compatible with the solvent in fast tac. It will cause the base tape to seperate from the tire. Vittoria tires are fine with it though. 3m changed teh formula for Fast Tac about 3 years ago and the new stuff doesn't work quite as well.

DannoXYZ 

Thanks for the tip, I'll pick up some #08031 at Home Depot. It's hard to fine #08031 around here. I used to get it at the auto-parts dealers, but now they only have #08011 or #08017.

And it's NOT rubber-cement. Try a comparison of gluing two pieces paper together with rubber-cement and do the same with two other pieces using Fast Tack. Follow the instructions on the package for both and let sit overnight. Now try pulling the glued pieces apart. Quite a bit different with FastTack huh?

As for the semantics of what's a "contact cement", rubber-cement and FastTack fit the bill better than traditional tubular glues. They're just not the same stuff that's all and have different properties and different usage techniques. Don't ever mix the two on a wheel, always use acetone or lacquer thinner to remove all traces of either one from the rim and as much from the tyre as possible before switching to the other.


One very good use of FastTack I've found is in sealing oil-pan gaskets. On some cars, the oil-pan doesn't have an outer-lip that prevents the gasket from sliding sideways. Replacing the gasket cleanly on the car is close to impossible due to oil dripping down from the engine and the sloppiness in re-installing the pan. As a result, a lot of gaskets creep and blow out due to crankcase pressure. Using FastTack, I can seal a gasket so well, I don't even need to use the bolts to hold the pan on.

patentcad

But tire glue makes big dried snot ****ies just like rubber cement used to. It's gross.

invwnut

Most of those expensive adhesives are made by 3M anyway. Find a 3M rep and they can give you the low down. If not probably some company like Riechhold chemicals makes it. The glues probably have different properties but none that is too off base. If you want to get something to remove glue pretty well try Goof Off. Acetones and the others seem to make it gooeier (sp?). Goof off seems to soften it enough that there isn't as much need to work it to make it come off. Don't know how it will work with rims though. Goof off is safe for most finishes.

TCR

Hmm...maybe PCad does math differently?


Vittoria is $10.80 for 8.5 ounces. ($1.27 per ounce)

Continental is $19.83 for 12.5 ounces. ($1.58 per ounce)

Fast Tack is $8 for 5oz. ($1.60 per ounce)

EivlEvo

pcad has mysteriously faded out of this thread.

Ratfish

Must have noticed how nice the smell was of the adhesive.

Ratfish

Holy crap that's hilarious.

zacster

I asked the same question a few weeks ago and everyone said to use the real thing. I used Fast Tack back in the old days and never had any problems. I bought a tube of Hutchinson anyway. I doubt there is any difference.

As for a price difference, there just isn't any. The tube I bought was 4oz and cost $4. $8 for a 5oz tube is more.

And could you just use contact cement?

bitingduck

I use Vittoria Mastik One and mostly Vittoria EVO Pista or Conti Steher tires. It sticks hard enough that it takes a real effort to take the tires off when it's time to replace them. Lately I've started just cutting the tire and stripping it back- much easier than trying to push it over the side of the rim.

The curious thing is that I read a lot of comments about fast-tack causing the base tape to separate from the tire, but I actually see this with Vittoria cement on Vittoria tires-- when I'm removing an old tire, the tire almost always separates from the base tape before the base tape separates from the rim (and that's when I'm pushing the tire over the side of the rim).

LowCel 

Give Zipp a call before you use it. When I talked to them about my wheels they told me specifically not to use 3M glue.

patentcad

Quick, somebody tell my LBS (an authorized Zipp dealer for 17 years, a 3M Fast Tack user for 17 years). They glue tubulars on Zipps using that stuff several times a week.

Zipp's literature does warn against using Fast Tack, but not because it damages the rims, Zipp says it can tear the tape off the tubular tires when you remove them. I have not observed that, neither has my LBS (until recently they glued all my tires with Fast Tack, never had a problem with the Fast Tack damaging tires).

CastIron

Bump for it's magnificence.

wfrogge

Fast tack is not what it used to be.... They changed the formula years ago. Good luck getting that stuff off.