FlashBazbo

Assume this: Your bike is light enough. Your wheels are light enough and they are the traditional non-aero type. You've got the weight weenie thing taken care of.

But now, the Aero weenies have come to town.

Aero stuff can be expensive. If you can only do one or the other, do you lay down the bucks for an aero frame? Or do you sacrifice for the aero wheels? Or (revolutionary thought here), do you do neither?

In other words, which makes the most difference to bike performance? And is the difference worth the money?

Grasschopper

I vote for the black toaster of death.

FlashBazbo

Ahhhhh, the long-forgotten, never loved TiSI!

a/k/a The "Anti-Aero".

How is it going, JHFarr?

umd

Deoends... for racing?

DrPete 

If I were just rec riding and we're talking about shaving 45 seconds off my 20-mile saturday jaunt, then hell no, it's not worth it.

If you're racing and/or have the cash and want to spend it, aero wheels are cool, and while it's small there's some measurable benefit. Is it financially worth it for me to spend a bunch of money as a mid-pack age group triathlete? Absolutely not. I'll never recoup my bike schwag expenditures in race winnings. Ever. But that's where the "have the cash and want to spend it" part comes in.

Personally, I think the psychological value of throwing on some bad-azzed carbon wheels on race day is greater than the aero benefit, but both are real phenomena.

Flak

No pete, the psychological advantage comes with trashing guys like you even though i don't have any aero gear

That said, i look forward to being able to afford it too.

DrPete 

Beating me on a bike is almost like winning a juggling contest against a guy with no arms. Don't be too proud of it.

whiplashsmile

I just made a trade deal where the other guy threw in a set of Zipp 404s to make the deal work so I have to say wheels. Although I have to admit it's a bit unnerving to put those wheels on my bike and go out and be dropped on the local group ride. I've found myself asking exactly when I will go ride with them as I'm too old and slow to really care about racing.

Surferbruce

aero is way overrated for the average rider.

FlashBazbo

I'm waiting for the Aero-weenie equivalent of the weight weenie, "save yourself the money and lose 10 pounds of body weight."

I guess it should go something like, "Save yourself the money by wearing skinsuits two sizes too tight. Same aero benefit as a set of Zipps."

Grasschopper

Wonderful...I just brought home my daughter from the hospital on Monday.

Soil_Sampler

congrats!

FlashBazbo

congratulations!!

StanSeven

Aero is the only thing you can do to get faster by spending money (I know spending money on a coach or powertap but that's increased/better training. Aero bars do make a big increase in speed, although they are not good in mass rides. To a much lesser extent, aero wheels do add speed as well.

So if you got the money and want to go faster (skipping the part about training harder), get aero wheels.

wheelsucker1

I think your body position plays a much bigger role than aero stuff- especially frames. Have someone take a profile photo of you on the bike and I'll bet most will be surprised at how upright they are.

DrPete 

There used to be a really good article on Cervelo's website looking at the aerodynamic contributions of various things on the bike--position, wheels, frame, etc.

First by far was position--aero bars, flat back, etc etc saves a huge amount of drag. Perhaps the reason that the article was taken off is that it showed that the frame was the least significant contribution to aerodynamics...

Wheels, IIRC, were a far distant 2nd to position.

Mellowman

^^ I remember that one. Aero benefits went something like.

1.) position
2.) helmet
3.) gloves
4.) wheels
5.) frame

think there was even bottle on the downtube before wheels.\

and as far as aeroness between wheels or frames....frankly it's a mute argument unless you can push 30mph for an hour all by yourself. And if you can do that then you should probably go pro, so you'd be sponsored, and you'll be given stuff to ride most likely with no real choice in equipment anyways. So again this argument is pointless.

umd

Moot... Not mute

And it's not 30 mph is not the tipping point where aero wheels start to make sense, but for what it's worth I won my last race with an attack at 1k where I did 30mph for a little over a minute and I'm sure glad I had my aero wheels

carpediemracing 

Aero wheels are fun when you go fast because they let you go a bit faster.

I haven't ridden an "aero frame" (other than old school TT bikes with 24" front wheels, old Looks KG somethings, and other not-really-aero frames). I think wheels make the biggest difference as far as equipment goes (assuming that, for example, you're already tucked in pretty well on the bike).

I understand the position thing, but unless you're either sitting upright (i.e. not aero at all) or in TT bars (super duper aero), your normal position is what it is, and if you don't have the time/energy/money to hone it a bit more (other than look down, keep low, etc etc), wheels allow you to do that.

Plus I always thought that I'm more aero when sprinting because I go faster when I sprint And for out of the saddle thrashing there isn't much out there for "what's a better aero position".

Of course I'm no scientific rider - no position analysis, no scientific training, sometimes no training at all. I have an SRM that is used primarily to playback different ride points ("Hey, this is where I jumped!"). I don't even bother with the HR belt because it's acting funky (do belts wear out?), and once I left it behind for a few rides I realized I can do without it. I'm more fascinated with the power/speed/cadence relationship because it's so immediate ("and then here I shifted... let me zoom in a bit... oh my cadence dropped by about 4 rpm but look at that spike in speed!"). My HR is always "high" when I'm riding hard, and just slightly under that when I'm not.

But yeah, I like aero wheels and riding fast on them.

cdr

nitropowered

Wheels over frame. With wheels you can change depending on conditions.

I dont think an aero frame will make too much of an impact (other than on your wallet) unless you can solo 28-30mph. Pack riding it will make little difference.

texascyclist

Fixed:

DrPete 

Yup. At that point, anything that saves you a couple watts can keep you out in a break for a few seconds longer. Still have to be smart about the tactics, but I agree that's when the wheels shine.

DrPete 

I think you're adding in the article from the MIT cycling team. They were the ones who came up with the helmet>wheels, bottle>no bottle, no gloves>gloves data. The Cervelo stuff was purely frame, wheels, position IIRC.

Daerkon

I would go with the wheels but certainly not under the guise of aero benefits. When I first set up my custom Seven over a decade ago I bought 2 sets of wheels at the time, Cosmic Carbone and Heliums, wheels that at the time fit the category of aero and climbing. I quickly resold the Heliums as they felt squishy and lacked any rigidity when climbing. I now ride the newer Zipp 404's for the feeling of the ride, which for me is stiffer and tracks better than lighter wheels (demoed R-Sys for a week wasn't impressed). I am a heavier rider at 175 so that might factor in. For me the 404's give great confidence descending though I have had riders question this quizzically. I climb everything with the 404's and ride them all season, gravel and all, no issues on reliability and would strongly recommend them.

Never had an aero frame and would not really bother considering one unless I was planning on TT.

ok_commuter

Beautiful! And she's already got her hands up, practicing her finish line celebration!