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11-23 or 12-25**********?

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

11-23 or 12-25**********?

Old 03-25-09, 10:10 AM
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12-27 is the best for all around. only the last 2 cogs are different (24-27 vs 23-25).

12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27

if you have a triple. then 11-23.
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Old 03-25-09, 10:12 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
FWIW, the 15-17 jump is the largest, percentage wise, on the whole cassette, at 12%. That's 50% greater than the shifts at either end of the cassette. The 11-12 shift is only 8% and the 23-25 is also 8%. With 1 tooth jumps the percentage difference decreases with increasing cog size, so the 16-17 shift is only 6%. At some point, 1-tooth changes becomes so small that they can be scarcely noticeable and 2T jumps make the most sense.

I don't miss an 18T tooth at all, but a 16 I do. Despite that, I used an 11-25 (10 speed) all last season. I got used to it, but there were certainly places where dropping from 100 rpm to 88 just felt excessive.
Well explained, that's why it's nice to have a 16.
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Old 03-25-09, 10:29 AM
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i'm currently geared 50/34 and 11/28

i could climb el capitan.

i'm actually entertaining the possibility that its too much low end.
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Old 03-25-09, 10:29 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Reynolds
Well explained, that's why it's nice to have a 16.
I've still never noticed I need a 16..
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Old 03-25-09, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by kimconyc
Would this give an argument for using a compact (talking about a 34) with an 11-23 since the jumps are smaller compared to a standard with the 15-17 jump? You get the 14T with a compact, which fills the void from the 15-17 jump on a standard crank.

Also, I've always wanted to try out a compact for climbing and such but I have not found anything convincing enough to not just simply just throw on a 27 or 28 cassette.
It might, since the 14-15 shift has the same gear inch range that's provided with the 16-17, when a 39T little ring is used. With the 11-23 you also get six 1-tooth shifts instead of five.

There is no free lunch however. With a compact, you must shift one more cog after every chainring shift. It's easier with Campy's thumb button that can shift up to 5-cogs with one push. The ultrashift finger lever can still shift 3-cogs larger with one sweep too. The new DA 7900 is limited to two -not good news for compact users.
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Old 03-25-09, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by badhat
i'm currently geared 50/34 and 11/28

i could climb el capitan.

i'm actually entertaining the possibility that its too much low end.
The 19-22 shift is a huge 14%. No thanks.

I've used a 28/25 with a triple (in the mountains). That's one ratio lower than a 34/28 and about the same as a common 30/27 on a Shimano triple.

When you approach 14,000' elevation, the lack of oxygen can cut your power by 25%, so those low gears don't feel all that low.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 03-26-09 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 03-25-09, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rOOster14
with DA you can go 11-25 11-27 or 11-28
that way you still have the faster bottom end.
im running an 11-25 sram cassette on my DA setup and i have had no complaints in the last two rides on it and i like it more than my 12-25 but as it was said, perception is reality and i think i just like the behavior of the new cassette haha.
11-28? with DA? is that DA7800 or DA7900 or both? can i use the 7900 cassette with my 7800 drivetrain?

thanks!
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Old 03-25-09, 04:32 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by fauxto nick
No reason to use DA cassettes except for weight, I don't think anyone here really uses DA cassettes even if they're running full DA. At least that's the impression I get from posts I have read.

I'd say go with the 12-25 but I personally am enjoying having multiple cassettes. I'm using a 12-21 for crits at the moment and a 12-26 for most of my road races and climbing training. I'd like to get a 12-27 and a 11-23 too.
I only use Dura-Ace cassettes.

My Zipp 404s have an 11-23 and my other wheels I use a 12-25. I use the 404s and 11-23 mostly for flat road races or crits, where as I use the 12-25 for normal training or for climbing.
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Old 03-25-09, 06:08 PM
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Back to the original question. Depends on what kind of climbing you do. I moved from a DA 7800 standard crank with a 12-25 to a 12-27 for our club rides in the summer. We do lots of hills. Always some >15% and sometimes >20%. The 11 is really not necessary. If I was racing on those hill, I'd change to SRAM for the 11.

I've got an Ultegra 12-25 on my winter bike with a compact 50-34. A couple of weeks ago, it got me up a hill in PA that averages about 16% and gets up to about 26%. But even with the compact, I've recently averaged 20 mph on a group ride of about 40 mi. and 1200 ft climbing. It's just not much fun riding the winter bike that fast though. Icky gear combos, heavier bike, lower pressure tires, heavier clothing, etc.
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Old 03-25-09, 10:42 PM
  #35  
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1090 11-26
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Old 03-26-09, 07:56 AM
  #36  
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I train almost exclusively on a 12-25 (10 speed). It's a very versatile range of gears. I've started racing on a 12-23 though (standard 53-39 crankset), because I like having the 18 tooth cog and I rarely get down into the 39/25 in an actual race.

I have an 11-23, but it's not much use except for TTs where there might be a downhill section where the 53/11 would be useful for keeping power going to the road.
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Old 03-26-09, 08:19 AM
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Over the few years I've been riding, I've already collected several cassettes. Assuming you have the tools, changing a cassette is quicker than changing a tube. I see no problem with switching every once in a while to match the conditions: If a race weekend involves a hill climb TT and a crit during the weekend, take a 12-28 and a 11-21 and swap them between races, it'll only take a couple minutes.

Mac
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Old 03-26-09, 08:23 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by sac02
Over the few years I've been riding, I've already collected several cassettes. Assuming you have the tools, changing a cassette is quicker than changing a tube. I see no problem with switching every once in a while to match the conditions: If a race weekend involves a hill climb TT and a crit during the weekend, take a 12-28 and a 11-21 and swap them between races, it'll only take a couple minutes.
I was going back and forth a bit over whether to use the 11-23 or 11-26 for the san dimas hill climb and road race, but realized that in order to be even remotely competitive I had to be going fast enough that the 23 would be plenty, if even used it at all. But yeah, easy enough to change just don't forget the tools
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Old 03-26-09, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
The 19-22 shift is a huge 14%. No thanks.

I've use a 28/25 with a triple (in the mountains). That's one ratio lower than a 34/28 and about the same as a common 30/27 on a Shimano triple.

When you approach 14,000' elevation, the lack of oxygen can cut your power by 25%, so those low gears don't feel all that low.

tell me about it.

i do evans every year and trail ridge a few times every summer so i know what you mean by 14k.

i just got the bike so i've only climbed on it once. i moved over from a triple as well. i went big on the cassette cuz i climb a lot (rist, left hand, buckhorn, horsetooth dams) and i didnt want to loose any of the low end i had on some of those >10% climbs. i dont really mind the big shift gap personally. i have a pretty flexible cadence, i guess, i find the rhythm i need. also i'm not a racer.
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