MCODave

All this debate over the geometry of a steel Gios and the resulting “IMMENSE differences” in handling that is “too nervous for the average rider” would lead you to believe that Gios has somehow ignored all basic rules of bike geometry and created some sort of Quasimodo bike that requires the skill of a rodeo rider to keep going in a straight-line.

I have a steel Gios Mega-lite that I have had since 2001. This bike has the same geometry as the Compact Pro being discussed here, and only differs by being TIG welded instead of lugged and having normal rear dropouts instead of adjustable ones. This bike has been my go-to bike for commuting, group rides and centuries for several years despite that fact that I also have a full Dura Ace Trek OCLV in the garage. I don’t notice any of the crazy handling traits that have been described here, and can go back and forth between the Gios and my Trek without noticing much of a difference. I can assure you that if the Gios had “nervous” handling I wouldn’t use it to commute in the vicious traffic around here. I wonder if any of the “internet experts” here have really ever ridden the bike that they are discussing.

I wanted to leave this alone, but I feel I have to speak up particularly because as we all know that through the wonders of Google (not to mention the search function on this board) this thread will probably be showing up whenever someone searches “Gios” for the next century.

Jurgen

Follow this thread to tigrrtamer's arguments on frame design (!) with Thylacine (!!) and e-RICHIE (!!!) to put his comments here in perspective:

https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/445280-frame-geometry.html

FIXED!

ripa

Tommasini Sintesi.

Timmi

For me, "nervous" handling is a good thing... perhaps I should have used the term "very responsive" instead. It was meant as a compliment to the Gios. In my opinion, the Tommassini is a slouch best used for touring and sport riding, while the Gios is a real racing machine. But I didn't want to come flat out and say that, as I was trying to be unbiased and make my posts as helpful as possible to the person trying to make a choice here. I deal with lots of people I build bikes for and see too many beginners or sport riders who are used to very conservative handling.

Timmi

[QUOTE=Jurgen;9153365]Follow this thread to tigrrtamer's arguments on frame design (!) with Thylacine (!!) and e-RICHIE (!!!) to put his comments here in perspective:

Jürgen, even if you have a boatload of people screaming that the sky is green, it doesn't mean that the person saying it is blue is wrong. You can rant and rave and throw a childish fit all you want, your comments were myopic and ignorant. Period. Now suck it up and try taking it like a man and not like a kid!!!

HigherGround

I'd actually like to see that thread, but the link appears to direct to a member profile instead.

531Aussie

Hmm, did you mean for this link to go to mrrabbit's profile?

I think this is the thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=445280

531Aussie

I see.

In my opinion, there are other factors apart from twitchy steering, cornering 'whippiness', steep seat tubes, and short wheelbases which make a bike feel more 'racey' or 'tourey', such as stiffness and large weight differences (over, say 2kg). I have racey bikes with slacker angles which feel more race-ready than my steeper 'agressively geometreed' steel bikes, because they're stiffer, etc. I had an alu Scapin S2 which even had a 72.5 degree head-tube, but it was a good race bike.

Although, I should say that after riding '80s bikes with whippy steering for a long time, it took me ages to get used to modern frames with slacker head tubes. Fast-steering bikes feel nippy and zippy off the saddle -- and they seem to corner quicker -- so my modern frames felt a little unresponsive for a long time. Overall, though, I now prefer more stable steering, even for criteriums.

Jurgen

This is way too over-complexifying for me.

Timmi

It was only a couple guys arguying that there is no such thing as a "criterium" frame geometry... that a race geometry is a race geometry, and that they're all the same, and that a standard race geometry is just fine for crits. I was trying to explain that there actually is such a thing as a criterium geometry (it's like a Gios versus a Tommassini... perfect example), as I had owned a crit bike and it was quite different in handling from my road racing bikes. At least one of those guys was a framebuilder, and it was starting to become obvious that he was on the defensive for his own personal design philosophy he was imposing on his clients, as he had no optimized-for-criteriums bikes to offer. A visit to a few of his competitor's websites did confirm that there is actually such a thing as a criterium-optimized frame geometry, in the eyes of other expert framebuilders.
Juergen is once again just speed reading and not capting the message contained within the texts... in my opinion he needs to do some reading up on bike design, or take reading lessons first.

But we stray from this thread's initial purpose, don't we?

nenad

Paint can be an issue if the bike was mishandled during shipping. I bought a 19 year old Gios with 30k km on it in almost pristine condition (it had scratches only where they can be expected, namely rear dropouts).

nenad

To me, this is the post that drives the point home best and this is my experience with 2 bikes I have, an alu/carbon Basso and steel Gios. In my case I felt Basso to be just as racy as Gios if only because it is 1.5 kg lighter, otherwise Gios FITS me better.

Since we are doing a comparison of 2 steel bikes where one could assume similar stiffness and weight, Gios would come out on top as a race / crit bike. But you must all remember that the bike for the OP is the one that will FIT him best (there is also a riding style to consider).

So how do you find a bike with ideal geometry for you? In my case, it took few years, about 30 000 km of riding and 4 bikes. You need to spend time on the bike before you find the one that "speaks" to you.

So should OP choose Tommasini or Gios? I haven't got a clue.

hiromian

Gios: good crit bike, poor decender.

531Aussie

Ray Dobbins is selling his Gios Super Record.
Only $2,500

https://www.raydobbins.com/ebay/bike-...s_for_sale.htm

nenad

seen it. I think it'd be worth that much if it was full panto.

kergin

Whoosh!

RideTommasini

He selected the Tommasini and he is very happy with it, just ask him.

BobLoblaw

My Sintesi broke after less than four years and 12k miles. I hope he has better luck than I did.

BL