Vermont22

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but the search function just returns so many results, so I apologize if it has been discussed already.

I have this issue where after long climbs, when I return to the flats I get pretty bad back tightness. Sometimes it's tight enough to be very uncomfortable. It's always after the climbs.

Is this a bike fit issue? Is it just a need for more climbing and more endurance? On longer rides it's a hindrance and wondering if I can change anything. Any ideas?

roadwarrior

If that's the only time you have an issue, I am going to say fitness, core strength. You do use some different muscles when climbing, sitting up, hand on the top of the bars.

Lower back strength and flexibility, but when you do that you also have to work abs. A really good way to do this is with a stability ball. The opposite is true...if you doa lot of ab work, you also have to balance that with lower back (core) work.

Trainright.com has a great DVD that's dedicated to core strength development for cyclists.

Vermont22

ya that makes sense. i'm in reasonabe shape; i can hold my own, but i'm not in "great" shape. i'll have to start working on core strength for sure. so essentially I could resolve this back tightness issue by having stronger "opposite" or complimentary muscles i.e. abs?

tntyz

It could be related to technique, too. If I'm not careful I tend to really "pull" myself up the bigger hills which puts stress on low back muscles. Others can describe the right way, I only know the wrong way.

Vermont22

Something makes me think its a combo of fit / abs / technique. Only reason I think it might be related to technique is because even on long, >50mile, flat rides it will tighten up. Hard to figure out. Appreciate the help so far.

merlinextraligh

+1 on core strength, also working on flexibility.

When you go uphill, your position changes a bit, and you use different muscles.

Riding the hoods on a steep climb, is somewhat akin to riding in the drops on the flats, at least in relation to your hip angle.

Do you get this same issue riding in the drops on the flats? If your drop from seat to bars is not excessive, and you can comfortably ride in the dorps on the flats, then I think it's not a fit issue.

If you can't comfortably ride in the drops for a decent period, then fit (in relation to your flexibility) may be part of the picture.

rruff

No, that is BS. You don't pedal with your stomach! And straining the opposing muscle group to compensate for straining your back is a waste of energy. You want your glutes and leg muscles engaged... and as little else as possible. There is something about your posture, fit, or technique that is causing you to tense and strain your back muscles while climbing. If you are sitting too far back and pulling a lot with your arms, that would do it. I like the quote from Bernard Hinault that you should be able to play the piano while climbing.

StanSeven

Before you say advice is BS, you need to be right. You're not. Google back pain and you'll find out the OP is correct.

rruff

The internet is full of BS.

Hammertoe

Yes...

I have pain in my lower back when climbing the long big hills (Whiteface, Ascutney, Washington, etc)...

When you climb you need to stabilize yourself on the saddle and push on the pedals...

Because there is nothing behind your back you use your core muscles for that stabilization...

With a weak core your climbing will suffer as will your lower back...

badger1

That's true enough, but not in this case. The advice re. core strength is quite right, insofar as an imbalance of this kind can be a contributor to the OP's back tightness/pain. I had the same problem, which was resolved only through a course of physiotherapy, at a sports medicine clinic, intended to strengthen 'core'. As explained to me, true: you (should) be using the leg/related muscles for pedalling BUT also true: spinal/pelvic stability is essential, to provide a stable 'platform' from which those muscles can operate efficiently. If the muscles (not directly related to pedalling a bike) which stabilize the spine/lower back/pelvis are (relatively) 'weak', they work too hard trying to counteract the much greater forces generated by the legs. Result: various kinds of back pain/issues. All of this is exacerbated by climbing.

rruff

Would all you proponents of "core" work kindly explain how strengthening muscles that he isn't using to compensate for muscles that he *shouldn't* be using, is the best solution here? Just because something is regurgitated often doesn't make it true... and this forum is the king of regurgitation...

This is a posture, technique, and fit issue. If he got back aches while in the drops then it could also be a flexibility issue. If you are significantly engaging anything but your glutes and leg muscles while cycling, then you are wasting energy. Is this a difficult concept?

badger1

As I said above, the point is that he IS using those muscles. Of course, my physiotherapist and the osteo. specialist with whom I had extensive consultations on all this could be full of s__t, but I've no reason to suppose so

palookabutt

This (and references therein) should get you started. If you have references that contradict these, please post links.

https://www.pitt.edu/~neurolab/public...0Stability.pdf

JonnyV

It takes a lot more muscles to ride a bike than just the group of muscles in your legs. If he's coming out of the saddle he's using just about every muscle group. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue with you but there's more to this than what "should" or "shouldn't" be done. There could be quite a few reasons for the discomfort. Hamstring flexibility is what comes to mind. Could be a fit issue, as was already stated. Could be a technique issue, also already stated.

rruff

I repeat... he shouldn't be.

Do they specialize in cycling? Do they have a thorough knowledge of optimal muscle recruitment and athletic performance? Can they explain exactly why specific "core" exercises would solve this issue?

I suffered from back pain while riding for over 20 years. Core exercises didn't help at all. Stretching didn't even help. In my case position didn't matter either. It was all about posture and technique... using only the neccessary muscles and using them efficiently.

The primary thing that needs to be done here is for the OP to pay attention to what he is doing that strains his back when climbing, and adjust his position and/or technique to reduce the strain.

kk4df

Yep. Often you will tend to tense up your upper body when climbing. I'm told you should try to relax and drop your shoulders with minimal weight of hands on the bars. Keep your butt back over the seat when you stand to climb, and not too far forward. I still suffer from this, too, if I don't pay attention to position and upper body tension. Stretching before the ride AND during the ride also helps for me.

badger1

Oh dear! What to say?
First, I did NOT say that 'core' imbalance issues were the only (or at all) issues involved with the OP's problem. Those kinds of issues are one possibility. Second, I will repeat: those 'other' muscle groups are involved when pedalling. The involvement is indirect, but that's rather the point. Third, to answer your direct question, the answer as it happens is yes; more particularly, the physiotherapist works extensively with cyclists within the local road racing community. The physician (back specialist) in question is in fact, again as it happens, a consultant to the national cycling team (Canadian). I'm very fortunate to work in a place which gives me access to these kinds of people.
As I said above, they may indeed not know what they are talking about, but I've no reason to suppose so. In my particular case, I've suffered (low) back pain for years, which was exacerbated by cycling, and especially by (seated) climbing. A particularly excruciating episode last fall finally got me to seek professional help (x-rays, MRI, physical exam/assessment etc etc, including an assessment by the above-noted professionals of my cycling position etc. Main contributing factor, IN MY CASE, was pelvic assymetry/lower back strain caused by (not result of) core muscle imbalance/weakness. So, again in my case, prescription was/is to work on core strength. Result: completely free of back pain for all practical purposes, and feeling stronger on the bike than ever (even though I'm old)

rruff

Very true... but in that case using these other muscles is necessary.

That is common... but if he is ok on the flats and only has issues when climbing, then it doesn't seem likely.

Vermont22

Well now that you mention it, I do have difficulty spending long periods of time in the drops for the same reason. When I climb, i'm mostly on the hoods and less straight upfront. I never was "fitted" professionally - I wonder if that's something I should do.

So hypothetically, if its a flexibility + fit issue - while climbing on the hoods and riding the flats on the drops, what should I focus on in order to alleviate the problem? Thanks for the help so far everyone.

rruff

Well... I can concur with their findings. Core fatigue sure does screw up my pedal stroke. But the only reason my core fatigues is because I'm using it improperly... not because it is "weak".

rruff

The mostly important flexibility issue is tight hamstrings. Isolated stretches where you lie on your back and use a strap to pull your straight leg up are the best. If you can't get close to a 90 degree angle with your torso, then this certainly needs to be worked on.

Hammertoe

rruff...

I, whole heartedly, disagree with your assumption that core muscles should not be used when climbing (but I do not disagree that tight flexor muscles contribute)...

Proper technique while climbing requires you to engage your core muscles...

If you climb with just leg power, YOU are doing it wrong...



For example, when doing leg presses you have a back to the bench to stabilize yourself...

Now do them without the back of the bench...

You need your core muscles to stabilize yourself...

You are not using them to lift just stabilize...



When climbing the steeps, you need to slide back in the saddle, bend at the elbows, lower your upper body slightly then come over the top and across the bottom of the pedal rotation...

In order to do this, you must stabilize your hips on the saddle...



I have been climbing steeps long enough to see a benefit to have a strong core...

I have been mentored and coached by cyclists with vastly more experience than myself that recommend a strong core to improve ones ability to climb FAST and decrease lower back pain when doing it...



Your experience with solving back pain should not be extrapolated to anyone else...

Proper climbing technique is proper climbing technique...

roadwarrior

Honestly, this has to be satire.

For starters, strong abs and obliques stabilize your pelvic area which increases power by reducing all that rocking and wiggling. Your abs stabilize your back.

I read stuff out here and sometimes I just laugh out loud.

My guess is that efficiency and power are not goals of yours.

Before you go on the attack, I have the background to know what I am talking about. And there is not a single solitary person working with cycling fitness that would do anything but laugh at this.

My guess is that you hold your upper body up with your arms. With straight locked elbows. Or maybe by magic. Certainly it's not your core area.

Sheesh...

roadwarrior

Good post.

I think we are talking with a hybrid MUP rider. Elvira Gultch didn't have to worry about core strength to get more power.