Falchoon

Which is the better value for an all round training and racing tyre? I've been using the GP4000S which seems like a good tyre but it is a bit susceptible to damage and flats but I reckon they are less susceptible than the coloured GP4000.

Val23708

lithions are budget tires. GP4000s are race tires.

andr0id

Well, that's the beauty. GP4000S are race tires that you can train on if you're willing to accept a few flats. They hold up surprisingly well on a daily basis if you're not that type that plows through glass, rocks and potholes.

Every tire is a compromise in some way.

fauxto nick

I've frankly ended up riding Mon-Sat on Conti Gators and then come race day I throw on my Michelin Pro 3 races. I've had good luck with this, and if I'm lazy and get a few days of training in on my P3Rs it's not the end of the world.

As far as your two choices go I'm not sure, I've used neither but I would have to say go with whatever is cheaper. One thing to keep in mind, and I don't know how strongly it applies these but it's been said in the past that colored tires typically wear faster than black tires; it has something to do with the compound. If I were in your shoes I'd just go with whatever was cheaper.

operator

Yeah, but why do you need to be riding a race tyre in training anyways. Makes zero sense. Do you want to be training? Or fixing flats?

fauxto nick

Laziness, cash to burn, logo lust.

andr0id

They ride much nicer than gatorskins of the same size and a flat every couple of weeks is no big deal, it takes < 5 minutes to fix. If I were flatting every 3 days, I'd find something that works better. YMMV.

I also run the 700x25 GP4000 on my other bike and have very good results with them too.

Why would you ever want to ride around on harsh riding or dog slow tires either training or racing?

fauxto nick

Oh come on, lets be realistic, Gators are not THAT big of a difference. They're definitely not slow, I race almost every weekend and I forget to put on my Pro 3 races several times and raced with the Gators, no big deal. The benefits of riding a tire like the Gators outweighs the slight performance disadvantage they give you, very slight.

operator

The difference between race only tyres and training tyres is not so much that you'd be going backwards. Who cares how much more RR is on a training tyre anyways...? Which is exactly what I said last post.

Red Rider

I train and race on the Michelins. The Gatorskins provide a little rougher ride but not enough to make me change brands. I'm on a budget and if cheap tires work as well as expensive ones, then I've got money to spend elsewhere.

DataJunkie

Skip the Lithions. I have one and have been completely underwhelmed by the tire. No flat resistance. Rides like a cheap tire.

johnny99

Michelin Lithions are designed to be a cheap tire. I think the advertise them as 2/3 the performance of the Michelin Pro Race for 2/3 the price. If you want a heavy duty tire, you shouldn't be using any of these, anyway.

MONGO!

I trained all winter on GP4000s, they cut up easily but I only had one flat.

JimF22003

I don't get many flats on the road, for whatever reason. I've gone 2 years easily without one. I've torn a few stems pumping them up at home, and once or twice I've woken up with a flat tire, but so far not on the road. That's easily 15000 miles of riding. In that time I spent most of it on Michelin Krylium Carbons, but the last 1000 miles or so have been on the Conti gp4000s.

DigitalRJH

Gp4000s

AngryScientist 

i have the lithions on my SS, which i commute to work two days a week on. they're holding up great and i have yet to flat in 1500ish miles on them. i think they are a decent all around tire.

andr0id

I said slow OR harsh because not all "training tires" are both. I don't like the way Gatorskins ride compared to 4000S. I think they are very harsh feeling. That's a direct compare between 700x23 tires at the same pressure. If you can tolerate the ride, have fun with them. I get my 4000S from PBK for the same price REI charges for Gatorskins, so I don't feel like I'm blowing through big bucks to ride a nicer feeling tire.

Some tires like Armadillos (that I should favor since I'm a Texan) are slow AND harsh. Tossed those in the trash years ago. I like Pro 3's also, I think the feel better than the Contis, but they don't hold up near as well.

I don't switch out tires or wheels for racing. I just ride and race plain old 32 and some 28 hole alloy rims. So I don't treat racing as time for special "fast equipment". I just put the bike on the car and go.

winders

If you want a Michelin training tire, look at the Krylion instead of the Lithion. The Krylion is a great tire.

S-

SushiJoe

I have had exactly one flat in four years running pro race 2 & 3s only. Flatting every few days or weeks? Not in my experience at all. I'm 175 lbs and run 100 psi.

SushiJoe

I also get my tires from PBK so cost isn't a huge factor for me.

rtruectoc

how about something like a gp4 season on vittoria rubino pro