Different Sized Rim Depth (front and rear) any benefit?
05-13-09, 10:30 AM
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Different Sized Rim Depth (front and rear) any benefit?
I was going to post this in the racing sub forum but I figured I'll put this out there for the peanut gallery.
I've noticed a lot of racers racing (crits especially) with varying depth rims on their bike, for example in the front someone would be running a 404 while in the rear an 808. At the San Dimas Stage Race 3rd stage I noticed several on the High Road Woman's team were running 1080's in the rear with an 808 up front!
I was just curious if this is worth it? I assume it's obviously to give added control in the front to a cross wind, and maybe save some weight. What do you all think, since I'll be getting my carbon tubulars off ebay I'll be in a position to mix and max say Reynolds 46's and 66's or a 404 and 808 etc. I also ask because when I test rode an S3 with 404's I was not stoked on the feeling of being grabbed by a cross wind.
Discuss.
I've noticed a lot of racers racing (crits especially) with varying depth rims on their bike, for example in the front someone would be running a 404 while in the rear an 808. At the San Dimas Stage Race 3rd stage I noticed several on the High Road Woman's team were running 1080's in the rear with an 808 up front!
I was just curious if this is worth it? I assume it's obviously to give added control in the front to a cross wind, and maybe save some weight. What do you all think, since I'll be getting my carbon tubulars off ebay I'll be in a position to mix and max say Reynolds 46's and 66's or a 404 and 808 etc. I also ask because when I test rode an S3 with 404's I was not stoked on the feeling of being grabbed by a cross wind.
Discuss.
05-13-09, 10:53 AM
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Looks like an 808 on the back (?) or similar size rim anyway.
More height usually means faster sustainable speed. If in the rear, more stability (i.e. bike wants to go straight). In the front, more height means more susceptible to crosswinds or gusts.
Less height means more stability in the front, especially in unpredictable wind situations (trucks passing a few feet away while on a 55 mph descent on the side of a mountain with occasional trees/buildings blocking the way and a 24 inch shoulder on the road while the wind is gusting up to 40 mph). You can steer with your hips on short rims, you have to do some actual steering with the bars on tall rims.
If you train on a tall front wheel, you can use them in almost any situation. This applies to front wheels since you can always use a tall rear wheel without affecting your bike handling too much.
So front or pair of TriSpokes just as Hurricane George was about to hit FL (50 mph wind, 80 mph gusts)? Fine. TriSpokes or DV46s in 50 mph gusts in a crit? Fine.
If you're getting some wheels for racing, get a minimum of 404 height (58 mm). Save a shorter rimmed front wheel for days you feel uncomfortable with the tall front wheel. The return on speed on sub-50mm rims is not as great, and the weight penalty negligible.
I run a 440 (old version of 404) up front, DV46 rear. I want "faster" and I have one 440. Therefore I built it as a front. I rarely use my DV46 front in races now.
Train on the front wheel, else you'll be surprised on race day. When I used TriSpokes all the time, I had a clincher front TriSpoke that I rode all the time, probably for 4 or 5 years. I felt totally comfortable with those wheels in all sorts of conditions, even though they collect a lot of lateral force from the wind.
Anytime I think I'll be doing 50+ on a descent, I like a box section front wheel. I've never felt comfortable on aero wheels at over, say, 55 mph on descents.
cdr
More height usually means faster sustainable speed. If in the rear, more stability (i.e. bike wants to go straight). In the front, more height means more susceptible to crosswinds or gusts.
Less height means more stability in the front, especially in unpredictable wind situations (trucks passing a few feet away while on a 55 mph descent on the side of a mountain with occasional trees/buildings blocking the way and a 24 inch shoulder on the road while the wind is gusting up to 40 mph). You can steer with your hips on short rims, you have to do some actual steering with the bars on tall rims.
If you train on a tall front wheel, you can use them in almost any situation. This applies to front wheels since you can always use a tall rear wheel without affecting your bike handling too much.
So front or pair of TriSpokes just as Hurricane George was about to hit FL (50 mph wind, 80 mph gusts)? Fine. TriSpokes or DV46s in 50 mph gusts in a crit? Fine.
If you're getting some wheels for racing, get a minimum of 404 height (58 mm). Save a shorter rimmed front wheel for days you feel uncomfortable with the tall front wheel. The return on speed on sub-50mm rims is not as great, and the weight penalty negligible.
I run a 440 (old version of 404) up front, DV46 rear. I want "faster" and I have one 440. Therefore I built it as a front. I rarely use my DV46 front in races now.
Train on the front wheel, else you'll be surprised on race day. When I used TriSpokes all the time, I had a clincher front TriSpoke that I rode all the time, probably for 4 or 5 years. I felt totally comfortable with those wheels in all sorts of conditions, even though they collect a lot of lateral force from the wind.
Anytime I think I'll be doing 50+ on a descent, I like a box section front wheel. I've never felt comfortable on aero wheels at over, say, 55 mph on descents.
cdr
05-13-09, 11:09 AM
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At this point I'm such a weak ass I don't need any rims like this but I just wanted to pick ppls brains. I really like the look of the 808, EC90 Aero, DV66 rim depth of around 46-66ish, I think 66ish is a bit excessive for crits but hey. Hopefully I'll get to get some miles on a pair before I make the purchase.
05-13-09, 01:21 PM
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I am paranoid, I race crits I'm not doing a lot of climbing so I'll ride my aluminum frame, I don't mind the extra weight but I like the stiffness and feel of deep section carbon tubulars. I'm not going to spend over $800, I'm just waiting for a good deal on a used pair (pretty much rules out Zipps) I can live with putting a pair of $600-800 tubulars on the line but not a $2000 frame. I have a feeling I'll end up with a used set of Easton Tempest II's or something like that, maybe older Zipps. I almost snagged a pair of Tempest II's 2 weeks ago for $500.
05-13-09, 01:24 PM
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Looks like an 808 on the back (?) or similar size rim anyway.
More height usually means faster sustainable speed. If in the rear, more stability (i.e. bike wants to go straight). In the front, more height means more susceptible to crosswinds or gusts.
Less height means more stability in the front, especially in unpredictable wind situations (trucks passing a few feet away while on a 55 mph descent on the side of a mountain with occasional trees/buildings blocking the way and a 24 inch shoulder on the road while the wind is gusting up to 40 mph). You can steer with your hips on short rims, you have to do some actual steering with the bars on tall rims.
If you train on a tall front wheel, you can use them in almost any situation. This applies to front wheels since you can always use a tall rear wheel without affecting your bike handling too much.
So front or pair of TriSpokes just as Hurricane George was about to hit FL (50 mph wind, 80 mph gusts)? Fine. TriSpokes or DV46s in 50 mph gusts in a crit? Fine.
If you're getting some wheels for racing, get a minimum of 404 height (58 mm). Save a shorter rimmed front wheel for days you feel uncomfortable with the tall front wheel. The return on speed on sub-50mm rims is not as great, and the weight penalty negligible.
cdr
More height usually means faster sustainable speed. If in the rear, more stability (i.e. bike wants to go straight). In the front, more height means more susceptible to crosswinds or gusts.
Less height means more stability in the front, especially in unpredictable wind situations (trucks passing a few feet away while on a 55 mph descent on the side of a mountain with occasional trees/buildings blocking the way and a 24 inch shoulder on the road while the wind is gusting up to 40 mph). You can steer with your hips on short rims, you have to do some actual steering with the bars on tall rims.
If you train on a tall front wheel, you can use them in almost any situation. This applies to front wheels since you can always use a tall rear wheel without affecting your bike handling too much.
So front or pair of TriSpokes just as Hurricane George was about to hit FL (50 mph wind, 80 mph gusts)? Fine. TriSpokes or DV46s in 50 mph gusts in a crit? Fine.
If you're getting some wheels for racing, get a minimum of 404 height (58 mm). Save a shorter rimmed front wheel for days you feel uncomfortable with the tall front wheel. The return on speed on sub-50mm rims is not as great, and the weight penalty negligible.
cdr
05-13-09, 01:37 PM
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I am paranoid, I race crits I'm not doing a lot of climbing so I'll ride my aluminum frame, I don't mind the extra weight but I like the stiffness and feel of deep section carbon tubulars. I'm not going to spend over $800, I'm just waiting for a good deal on a used pair (pretty much rules out Zipps) I can live with putting a pair of $600-800 tubulars on the line but not a $2000 frame. I have a feeling I'll end up with a used set of Easton Tempest II's or something like that, maybe older Zipps. I almost snagged a pair of Tempest II's 2 weeks ago for $500.
41mm, not terribly expensive, and Al.
