I've gathered quite a few tips on riding from scanning through the forums but have not really been able to find anything helpful on this topic, so I figured I would make it my first question.

I got my bike about 6 weeks ago and have been riding quite a bit. One thing I need to improve on is my ability to go through curves/corners at a higher speed. Right now I can cruise along at 17-20 mph but as soon as I anticipate a curve in the road or path I hit the brakes and slow to 10-12 mph. I do the same thing at intersections when turning. I have tried to go a bit faster through them but end up going too wide, eg - make a right hand turn but end up near the yellow line instead on the right hand side of the road (I've only tried this with no traffic around). I have the same problem on the MUP with smaller turns. I see other people effortlessly ride through these at a much greater speed than me so I know it's just a skill I need to develop.

I've read about countersteering and am more aware of this now when I ride. I also know to have my outside leg down. I still have to consciously think about these things, its just not automatic yet. I've also heard that I should practice in a parking lot. I don't really know what to practice though - just going in circles?

So any tips on how to improve my speed on curves/corners?

Thanks for any advice.

lean into the turn more.

go take a look at your bike, turn the cranks vertical. now lean the bike over until the lower pedal hits the floor.
your bike is capable of leaning over more than that.

by practising in parking lots, I think they want you to go in loops around two points and take the 180 turns you have to do progressively faster and faster.

Dude stop over thinking it, there's no trick that you're going to go out and just be able to nail turns like a CAT 1 pro in a crit.

It takes time to get comfortable on your bike and grow confidence in not only your equipment but yourself. Don't push it, just ride and experiment. Yes there are techniques but a lot of it is stuff that can't just be taught over an internet forum.

I considered myself pretty ballsy and fast in the turns, then I slid out twice in two weeks and now I'm a little shaky. Week by week I get closer to being confident again, but it's something you have to build, it's not like a light switch.

One piece of advice I will give you is learn to pick a line and hold it, follow through with your turns, you shouldn't be making adjustments mid turn, it's just like driving.

Practice on tighter turns (you could even set them up in a parking lot if you want) where speeds are slower and there is less penalty for failure. You have to get a feel for what your bike can do, how far you can lean, and what kind of traction you get, and how to properly enter the turn. Then apply what you learn to faster turns.

Fast turns are all about confidence.

My 15 mph turn crash hurt way more than my 25mph turn crash.

I think that's just bad luck, on the whole 25 mph has more potential for injury.

It hurt more because I didn't slide i just slammed down, also I gashed my hand open because for some reason it was the one time I decided not to wear gloves . The 25mph or so crash I went sliding the only slamming impact was my head... hitting the concrete.

look, lean, believe!!

Practicing tight figure 8s may help. Also helps with trackstands if you are into that.

Look through the inside of the turn, focus on where you want to be.

The mistake is to look where you are afraid to end up (outside, too wide), then you will end up there.

Best cornering thread evar: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=cornering

Really, really.

Geoff's diagram needs some explaining:

DarkBlue = early apex, note how it touches the the inside kerb earliest. However, you've only got 20-30 degrees of turning done by that point with a lot more to go. So on the 2nd half of the turn, you have to slow way down in order to make the remaining 60-70 degrees of turning. It also throws you into oncoming traffic.

Green = middle apex with perfectly symmetric entry and exit lines. Halfway through the corner, you've done 45-degrees of rotation and will do another 45-degrees on the 2nd half of the turn. This is the way to go around a corner with the highest average speed.

LightBlue = late apex. This requires a later turn-in and gets 60-70 degrees of turning done by the 1st half of the corner. However, the diagram isn't accurate for biking in that you don't let up on the turning in the 2nd half. It's good for motorcycle & auto-racing because letting up on the turning radius gives you back traction that can be used to accelerate earlier in the corner. This lets you achieve higher top-speeds on the next straight away. However, for cycling, you actually continue the same tightest of turn on the 2nd half of the corner and end up in the middle of the road or the yellow line to stay safe.

For non-powered vehicles like bikes, it's more like this:



The dark-blue line here is more representative of late-apex corners for a cyclist. The late turn-in requires a swift dive into the corner; going from upright to full-lean very quickly. Then holding the turn constant after the apex to come out on the centre to stay safe.

For the OP, I'd practice the swift turn-in in a parking-lot. Learn to relax and turn-in LATER and QUICKLY. Do S-turns and figure-8 turns in a parking lot. Once you get the feel of moving the bike and your body around swiftly and easily, it'll translate into faster cornering at higher-speeds.

practice away from cars and watch out for the painted lines, especially if it's wet outside. I've seen so many of my friends slam hard taking turn too fast and slipping out when they get to the painted stop line.

The apex diagrams provide a pretty good explanation of how to take a line through a curve, and the advice to look somewhat inside your chosen line also good.

Just sticking your outer leg down doesn't do a whole lot...but consciously pushing down with your foot while doing so will add a little more traction, letting you use a bit more body lean without sliding out.

Another thing to practice in diving into and through a curve is exerting downward and upward pressure on your handlebars. You can significantly decrease the radius of your initial turn to dive into a corner by doing so, which moves the "late apex" even later, enabling much faster potential speeds through turns. There's a good explanation of this by Davis Phinney in the book you can download by subscribing to the newsletter at https://www.roadbikerider.com.

Explains much of your posting.

Also keep your eyes off of the GPS or bike computer while descending on curves.

Don't ask my separated shoulder how I know...

While some people say to lean the bike, what they are really doing is countersteering by pushing on the bars - on the same side as the direction of the turn - just the opposite of what you would do when turning at a very slow speed. Countersteering is what causes the bike to lean and turn sharper - not body English. Anyone who'e ridden a motorcyle very much knows that if you're turning right and going too wide, you push harder on the right side of the bars (countersteering) to lean the bike more and turn sharper. A bicycle works the same way, but with a road bike's hook shaped bars, the countersteering action isn't as obvious.

A common cause of newbie motorcycle wrecks is a failure to turn tight enough. Rather than pushing harder on the right side of the bars (to turn right), the rider panics, quits pushing and goes across the centerline into oncomng traffic. When I first started riding hairpin mountain descent on a bicycle, I had not taken a motorcycle training course. I was riding a Colnago that has a lot of steering trail. If you didn't apply constant pressure to the bars, the bike would straighten up quickly and not turn. After taking the motorcyle training, I have a lot better understanding of how a bike turns. I've ridden thousands of miles in the mountains and never had a problem.

Don't be the guy discussed a few weeks ago who swerved all over the road entering a corner claiming he was countersteering. It's a subtle action that should happen naturally and not be noticable.

You put more pressure on the left side of the bike on both the bars and the pedals in a right hand corner. That's what countersteering is all about. On a corner you should have little to no pressure on the bike towards the inside part of the corner. If you do, you are likely to slide out of the corner.

It's all about physics and Newton's laws. First, there is no force called centrifugal force. What a vehicle experiences on a corner is the natural tendency of a body in motion to continue in the same direction unless acted upon by an outside force (Newton's First Law). The actual force is the centripetal force of the tires pulling the bike through the corner (the outside force). To maximize this force you need to express another force on the tires to keep them in contact with the ground. You do this by pressing down on the outside of the corner. This makes the downward vector more vertical and centered on the tires. If you were to press down on the inside pedal and hand, the force is directed downward but is a long distance from the tires. In effect, you've made a lever of your body with the pivot point at the contact patch. The centripetal force is reduced and the bike tires slide out on the corner.

m223, you are doing most thing right, however, press down hard on the outside pedal as you go around a corner. You can't press down hard enough. Put pressure on the outside handlebar and drop the inner shoulder. You'll get a feel for how hard to press down on the handlebar with experience.

cycocummute...

Do you ride a motorcycle? Your comments make me think not.

I see nothing in your comments about how to make the bike turn. You must turn the bars to the left, by pushing on the right side (countersteering) to lean the bike to the right and initiate a right hand turn. A smart rider would never apply pressure to the left side of the bars. That would tend to make the bike not want to lean. If it doesn't lean enough it won't turn sharp enough.

With a bicycle, if you have the inside pedal down, the bigger problem will be hitting the pavement with pedal and raising the rear tire off the ground. That seems like a no-brainer.

You're really confused if you think that a rider can do more than just apply his weight to the outer pedal. There's nothing to "press" against.

Wow, this is awesome. Thanks for all the advice.

So this morning after reading through the thread I headed out for a ride, keeping in mind all the suggestions. Decided to take the MUP near my house since it has several S turns that always give me problems. As I was riding I realized I am doing so many things wrong. I hit the brakes in the middle of the turn, inside foot down, looking outside of the curve, etc. So many bad habits to break. Today I worked on correcting these and noticed I had improved a bit by the time I got home.

So now its just a matter of practicing more while keeping all of this in mind.

To understand countersteering and getting used to it so that it's 2nd-nature, practic in big parking lots. Get up to 5mph+ and ride with your hands lightly on the handlebar. Let go of one hand (let's say left) while keeping the other one near, stay in a straight line. Now, with right hand, push on the bar so that it turns the bar left. Which way does the bike lean and which way does it turn?

Now do the opposite, pull on the bars so that it turns the bar right (not as easy to do). Which way do you lean and which way does the bike turn? Repeat with only the left hand on the bar, push on it, pull on it and see which way the bike leans and turns.

What happens on the bike a lot of times is that both hands ends up pushing and they fight each other and you end up going straight instead of turning. Or you try to consciously turn the handlebars in the direction you want to go and the bike refuses to respond that way.

It's pretty simple physics if you imagine looking down on the rider from above. The front & rear contacts patches are inline with the centre-of-gravity in between. Which way does the front-contact patch move when you steer left? Steer right? That explains why the bike leans to the other side and you turn to that side.

Echos my all-time favorite advice: Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Nope. I don't ride a motorcycle nor was I talking about riding one. However the same principles apply. It's a natural tendency to turn away from the corner so that you can initiate the turn. Anyone who rides a bike will do it because that's the way to balance the bike.

However, once the turn is initiated, you put pressure on the 'uphill' side of the bike just as you would on the uphill ski in a skiing turn. That 'uphill' side is the outside pedal which is the one that is down by the way. I never said, except to make a point, that you should press down on the inside pedal. If you did, the downward vector is too far from the tire patch to make the bike turn properly.

For example, this rider (a drawing because you'll seldom find a rider who would turn like this


is not turning correctly. His wheels would slide out from under him if the turn were fast and sharp.

Look at this picture of a high speed bicycle turn.



Notice that the outside leg is fully extended and the muscles appear to be tight. The right arm is obviously pushing on the outside of the bar and the inner shoulder is dropped. The wheel is curving to the inside of the curve (it has to) but the real pressure on the outside of the bike not towards the inner foot.

Here's a motorcycle picture that shows the same.



The inner arm is relaxed and the outer arm is fully extended. The rider is pushing the outer bar and isn't pulling on the inner one. His inner leg isn't putting pressure on the peg either. He's pushing on the outer peg too, however not as hard as you would on a bike because it would have less effect due to vehicle weight.

For an extreme example, look at this ski racer



All of the skier's weight is on the outer ski. She's pressing as hard as she can to maintain contact with the ground so that the outer ski pulls her around the corner.

It's true that a rider can't put more then his weight on the outside pedal in a turn, however, he can push down on it to put as much of his weight on it as possible. By doing so, you put the bike in a better position to be pulled around the corner...just like the skier.