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still exploding randomly - the Mavic reply

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still exploding randomly - the Mavic reply

Old 06-12-09, 09:10 AM
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still exploding randomly - the Mavic reply

https://www.velonews.com/article/9324...llapse-article
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Old 06-12-09, 09:18 AM
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Old 06-12-09, 09:21 AM
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interesting....

it'll be interesting to see where this ends up.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:25 AM
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"There are several key facts which may indicate that the cause of the accident was not the failure of the Mavic wheel."

Based on pics and first hand accounts of the accident, I don't buy the "facts" and it looks like Mavic is trying to pass the buck. If I understand the article correctly, their saying the wheel exploded because of rider error and "tire, the tube and the frame were not Mavic products"? Huh?
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Old 06-12-09, 09:26 AM
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Sounds like they're blaming the tire, which is plausible. If the tire separated from the rim, causing the cyclist to go down while taking the corner and put a lot of lateral force on the rim than the spokes could have broken. That would explain the sheared valve stem.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:28 AM
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Mavic is seriously trying to state that his frame broke, which caused the tire to fail, which sheared off the valve tube, which crashed the bike, and the innocent victim is the wheel? The problem is that none of those components has a dramatic and well documented history of failing in that fashion. Also, it's less likely that all those things failed at the same time. Most likely? The post-recall wheels are no better than the old ones, exploded in exactly the same manner, and Mavic is trying not to be left holding the potato.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by n00bL35
Mavic is seriously trying to state that his frame broke, which caused the tire to fail, which sheared off the valve tube, which crashed the bike, and the innocent victim is the wheel? The problem is that none of those components has a dramatic and well documented history of failing in that fashion. Also, it's less likely that all those things failed at the same time. Most likely? The post-recall wheels are no better than the old ones, exploded in exactly the same manner, and Mavic is trying not to be left holding the potato.
That's how i read it.. so... the strongest parts of the bike failed before the spindly little carbon spokes? riiight
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Old 06-12-09, 09:34 AM
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something smells fishy.

pants on fire.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Hocam
Sounds like they're blaming the tire, which is plausible. If the tire separated from the rim, causing the cyclist to go down while taking the corner and put a lot of lateral force on the rim than the spokes could have broken. That would explain the sheared valve stem.
funny

when I get a flat tire, I don't endo and break my shoulder.

my wheel doesn't fall apart, either.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:42 AM
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Boy I am not swayed by there explanation ... not much at all ...
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Old 06-12-09, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Hocam
Sounds like they're blaming the tire, which is plausible. If the tire separated from the rim, causing the cyclist to go down while taking the corner and put a lot of lateral force on the rim than the spokes could have broken. That would explain the sheared valve stem.
I've seen a couple of those wheels self-destruct. The tyre & tube were unharmed while the fork and frame had significant damage. As well as the hub sliding across the ground. However, there were always 1/4 to 1/2 of the spoke still attached to the rim & hub, although they were severely damaged.

My bet is on a pinched tube at the valve-stem. A lot of people start and stop their tyre-mounting at the stem which makes a pinched tube there even easier than anywhere else. And the tyre blowing off at that spot would rip the tube, spin it sideways if you're in a corner and rip the valve-stem off. The impact of the rim on the tarmac without the cushion of tyre & air would generate enough G-forces to snap the spokes.

I've been an expert-witness in 11 trial cases involved with bicycle product-liability suits. In about 1/2 of them, I actually changed sides after closer examination of the evidence. Would be interesting to examine the pieces of this one. Mavic products were top-notch 25-years ago, I'm not so sure nowadays.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 06-12-09 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:44 AM
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No, they are saying it's possible the frame broke first. Above the frame comment is discussion of the clincher tire separating from the rim and causing the valve stem to be sheared off. Seems unlikely.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:44 AM
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Somehow I think this would all go differently were there video footage of said race. Mavic, you got lucky this time.

Ready those video cameras ladies and gentlemen.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:46 AM
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Mavic's explanation is silly at best. Given the original description of the accident it is unlikely the flat would have cause the accident as A) Delaney would have hear the loud pop as he flatted (which is not mentioned) and B) he made it all the way out of the corner before he crashed, a flat going mid 20s in the corner or rolling a tire off the rim would have caused him to probably low side and see significant rim damage (also not described). As for the top tube (I love how Mavic describes this as the "The horizontal tube under the chest of the cyclist") causing the crash, I don't buy that at all.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:50 AM
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I have never had a flat tire in the front before and never had a tire slip before. I did like Mavic products but after that rebuttal, I may think twice before buying from them, or at least the R-Sys wheel.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:52 AM
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OK, fine. So if you ride these wheels you just have to accept the fact that if you flat in a corner the wheel will explode. Cool, not a problem. Not the wheels fault at all. Get better Tires/Tubes.
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Old 06-12-09, 09:53 AM
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When was the last time anyone rolled a clincher off of a rim? It's never happened to me (although I have limited experience on road tires), and I can't imagine it would be common.
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Old 06-12-09, 10:03 AM
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Ive rolled tires, in fact I had a crash with similar bike damage to what was described. Cause was catching a pedal Hard in a corner, unloaded the front tire and set it down I think in a crack in the road. Beleive me, this puts you down FAST in the corner not after you straighten back up.
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Old 06-12-09, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by n00bL35
When was the last time anyone rolled a clincher off of a rim? It's never happened to me (although I have limited experience on road tires), and I can't imagine it would be common.
I think its very rare to roll a clincher off, especially with new, high-end tires that barely go on. Maybe this could happen if you flatted at high speed, then take a sharp corner.

Mavic makes top-notch equipment sans this wheel set. Their shoes, jerseys and wheels are great. The rebuttal is unfortunate because I believe admitting failure and discontinueing this product looks better in the eyes of the consumer. With this said, I briefly thought about purchasing this wheel set but instead went with Shimano DA 7850s, really glad I did.
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Old 06-12-09, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by n00bL35
When was the last time anyone rolled a clincher off of a rim? It's never happened to me (although I have limited experience on road tires), and I can't imagine it would be common.
So Mavic is saying their R-SYS has a defective rim that allows clinchers to roll?


R-SYS is a stupid design, all around, IMO. Rotten aerodynamics and a design that relies on a slender column in compression (inherently unstable).
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Old 06-12-09, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by n00bL35
When was the last time anyone rolled a clincher off of a rim? It's never happened to me (although I have limited experience on road tires), and I can't imagine it would be common.
In a crit the guy in front of me rolled a clincher off the rim in the last corner... kept it upright but foiled my sprint...
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Old 06-12-09, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
I've seen a couple of those wheels self-destruct. The tyre & tube were unharmed while the fork and frame had significant damage. As well as the hub sliding across the ground. However, there were always 1/4 to 1/2 of the spoke still attached to the rim & hub, although they were severely damaged.
Really Danno? As far as I know the only people with any problems whatsoever with those wheels in town were me and Carissa. Mine were impact related and Carissa's were damaged when she touched wheels with someone (their front to her back) and the skewer took out somes spokes. Neither resulted in any catastrophic damage. The cycling community is pretty close-knit here, if there was a catastrophic failure like you've described I would have heard about it.
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Old 06-12-09, 10:14 AM
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I've rolled a clincher tire (Hutchinson) before.

As a side note, it is really difficult to reconstruct an accident like this. People aren't watching other people's bikes, and many times if you sustain a crash like that, you yourself don't remember much either. It is quite possible that he rolled his tire, maybe jamming into the fork and causing the wheel to collapse.

It is a bit unfortunate that they answered the article in the way they did. It does sound like they are trying to pass the buck. Even if they are right, that there are extenuating circumstances which make it so their wheel was not the primary failure, the crash and destruction of the wheel illustrates quite clearly the extent to which they are pushing the design limit with these wheels.
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Old 06-12-09, 10:15 AM
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bottom line is that the wheel should not have fallen apart in the manner it did. No matter what.
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Old 06-12-09, 10:22 AM
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The valve stem could have been sheared off by the hub (or any other bike/body part for that matter) hitting the rim.

Clinchers do roll off but usually in a corner and the resulting blow-out will take you down immediately.

I agree that Mavic is trying to squirm out of this one.
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