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Sram RD Failure kills System Six Frame

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Sram RD Failure kills System Six Frame

Old 06-14-09, 05:45 PM
  #51  
Bob Dopolina 
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Originally Posted by tosterbe View Post
I went back to the LBS and took some more pics. I held a straightedge up to the hanger and it appeared to be square. I didn't want to take it off the bike until we talk with the cdale folks on Monday.

Wrench agrees with my theory that since a jockey pulley is missing, the chain must have either picked something up which jammed in the RD or a link detonated. I didn't have time to check the chain today but i am going to check each link and see what I can find.

Finally came up with a name for my bike. In the spirit of the Liquigas boys: il detonato.
You theory is on the money.

Ders actually take very little load except some lateral load when shifting.

What sounds like happened is that the bolt holding your pulley wheel came loose, the pulley dropped out and then the chain grabbed the backing plate and blammo!

Have you ever taken that bolt out? If not that would be the tact to take with SRAM. There should be loctite (or such) on those threads and they shouldn't come loose. Too bad you don't have the bolt and pulley.

I all likelihood you will be eating this one.

I hope you can get set up with a frame.
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Old 06-14-09, 06:03 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post

Have you ever taken that bolt out? If not that would be the tact to take with SRAM. There should be loctite (or such) on those threads and they shouldn't come loose. Too bad you don't have the bolt and pulley.

I all likelihood you will be eating this one.

I hope you can get set up with a frame.
The bearing and bolts from the RD are still on the cage. The plastic jockey wheel is what detonated. Everything is totally intact. The RD has never been taken off of the bike nor were any of the bolts adjusted.
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Old 06-14-09, 07:31 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by tosterbe View Post
The bearing and bolts from the RD are still on the cage. The plastic jockey wheel is what detonated. Everything is totally intact. The RD has never been taken off of the bike nor were any of the bolts adjusted.
That is interesting...

Your picture shows the backing plate, bolts and pulley wheels are not attached anymore. Did you take it apart to remove it from the bike?

Do you still have both pulley bolts? Bearings? Shards of pulley?
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Old 06-14-09, 07:40 PM
  #54  
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Sucks. I hope that you can get some evidence of the jockey pulley. If it came apart and caused the problem, you may get some help from SRAM. However, as several people have said, and yourself: the RD has very low tension. Something probably had to get sucked in to cause whatever to break to break. I have never heard of a jockey wheel coming apart though, so who knows.

I once pulled the cable end into the RD jockey pulley. It ended up ripping the RD hanger off. Fortunately, I was climbing, so a 12 mph quick stop prevented a whole lot more damage.
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Old 06-14-09, 07:45 PM
  #55  
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The dent in the seat stay does not look that bad.
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Old 06-14-09, 08:42 PM
  #56  
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The LBS wrenck took all of the parts off and bagged them. The more I think about the what-ifs, the more I can put this in perspective. 5 minutes either side of the water stop and I would likely have done some hospital time. Just before the stop there are a series of rollers that are 100-200 yards long with a 10-12% grade. 5 minutes after the ride I would have been on a somewhat busy two lane highway. The damage was done at less than 10mph. If I had been hammering along the highway or mashing up a hill... FAIL.



As for the dent pics, I don't think they really do it justice especially when you look at the angle of the dent. The stay is primed to fold in on itself with a bit of force.

I've been told by the LBS that I can help in the total destruction of the frame when we do the trade in/up. I want to remove the pain from the area and see what the damage is really like and then try to cause a failure of the stay. I'll be somewhat ticked if I can't get it to fail but in the grand scheme of things, as the family breadwinner, I would rather be safe than screwed.
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Old 06-14-09, 09:19 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by tosterbe View Post
I've been told by the LBS that I can help in the total destruction of the frame when we do the trade in/up. I want to remove the pain from the area and see what the damage is really like and then try to cause a failure of the stay. I'll be somewhat ticked if I can't get it to fail but in the grand scheme of things, as the family breadwinner, I would rather be safe than screwed.
There you have it. I think you'd be hard pressed to replicate the forces of a crash or even hard riding with your bare hands, so I don't think there's any need to be disappointed if you can't get the thing to fail.

They really destroy frames that are replaced under warranty? I'd think that Cannondale would want those back...
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Old 06-14-09, 09:50 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
There you have it. I think you'd be hard pressed to replicate the forces of a crash or even hard riding with your bare hands, so I don't think there's any need to be disappointed if you can't get the thing to fail.

They really destroy frames that are replaced under warranty? I'd think that Cannondale would want those back...
But if I can get it to fail w/hands imagine what would happen on the road. The shop has a bunch of pics that show totally demo'd frames. Their tool of choice was a 5lb sledge. Not sure how much destruction really has to happen. I am hoping that I can take a hacksaw/sawzall to some of the tubes and see what happens. I want to transform the massive head tube into some sort of desk accessory.
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Old 06-15-09, 12:47 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by DrPete View Post

They really destroy frames that are replaced under warranty? I'd think that Cannondale would want those back...
I'm sure there are many frames under warranty that are considered defective for one reason or another. You bring all those back to Cannondale (or any manufacturer) and it's going to take up a lot of space. Proof of destruction is much cheaper.
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Old 06-15-09, 03:32 AM
  #60  
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Should have bought Campagnolo, then you'd be enjoying a nice ride right now with podium girls waiting for you at the cafe.
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Old 06-15-09, 03:46 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
I think you're actually implying that Cannondale can win the World Series.

They have a better chance than the Cubs.

Or the Mets.
The Mets appear to be the worst team money can buy...

Or is that the Yankees?

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Old 06-15-09, 03:52 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
They really destroy frames that are replaced under warranty? I'd think that Cannondale would want those back...
I had the first Six/13 that had the finish peeling off the clear coated frame. Since they had not seen this yet happen, it went back to Bedford.

My System Six, also clear coated, ended up with the same issue. Since they had seen this already, and the warranty was not structural, they did not want the frame back.

The reason they want them destroyed, when the item is structural, is so no one can grab it and ride it. They don't need to see it. The rep is usually there when this happens.
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Old 06-15-09, 06:48 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by mmmdonuts View Post
You might want to get a second opinion on the frame. A dinged seatstay doesn't always mean the frame is totaled.
I would ride it... is it a 58cm...?
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Old 06-15-09, 07:07 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by tosterbe View Post
Clarify big/big. The cassette is a SRAM 11-28. I was not in big/big. I get that there is progressive tension the closer you shift to big/big but in this case, the I had 2 more cogs (25 and 28).

Clarify under tension. When going up 12-15% grades more than just the chain and the rd are under tension.
after you replace your frame, and assuming you ride a 50-34, try the 34/15 combination. 34/15.6 is equivalent to 50/23, so you'd be close.

Larger question: if you have a sram 11-28 and it's stock, the jump would be from 22 to 25. Does SRAM make an 11-28 with a 23t in the mix? I haven't seen it.

cheers

** edit: I see you clarified you were riding a 50/22. so...34/15 is now an exact match.

Last edited by Flash; 06-15-09 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 06-15-09, 07:34 AM
  #65  
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I think SRAM will warranty it anyway, its a Rival, it costs them very little to replace it. And it will keep you happy.

The frame? I think it is still ridable. If your seatstay fails, it is not going to be catastrophic. You'll just feel more flex than usual if it does break. Look at the new carbon bikes with super small seatstays. The chainstays do most of the load carrying.

This is not a warranty issue for cannondale. If they were to sell you a new [upgraded]frame at cost, I'd be happy as well. But at $1600 you were quoted, I'd pass.

Take a better picture of that stay with the macro function on your camera
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Old 06-15-09, 07:49 AM
  #66  
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another option is to build up one of these. more likely to survive the impact in question. And cheaper too ;-)

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Old 06-15-09, 10:56 AM
  #67  
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I probably wouldn't worry terribly about the Rival RD warranty, although if SRAM warrnties it, why not. The Rival RD is far cheaper than the frame.

I thought $1600 for the SuperSix is a deal, since it was selling for double that not long ago?
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Old 06-15-09, 11:03 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Flash View Post
another option is to build up one of these. more likely to survive the impact in question. And cheaper too ;-)

[IMGhttp://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g218/steelkilt/Img_5011.jpg[/IMG]
the derailer hanger on the drop out can be bent back hard enough that the bottom of the drop out will be completely bent out of shape. there was a pic of that in mechanics not so long ago.
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Old 06-15-09, 06:43 PM
  #69  
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Update from the LBS. The local cannondale rep can't put his hands on a super six replacement frame and told us that they are not in production as they are preparing for the 2010 bikes. The rep is looking for a solution but I am not holding my breath.

SRAM did own up to a problem with the RD and is providing one under warranty. The wrench talked with SRAM as I listened in. The short story is that in the original run of 500 some odd RDs one of the pulleys was slightly off-center which could have caused this problem.

I've placed a follow-up call to SRAM to discuss this further as now that they have admitted to a product problem, I am a bit more creased. Especially since my replacement frame won't be available until late this summer and I will need to shell out some $ if I want to have a bike between now and Augustish.

On the funny side, we took the derailluer alignment tool to the frame to see how bad the tweak was. There was a significant amount of jacked-up-ed-ness. We gave it a bit of a nudge to see if it would move back closet to alignment. This caused the hanger finally break. Wasn't the purpose of the hanger to be the first thing that goes as opposed to the last?
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Old 06-15-09, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by intence View Post
I probably wouldn't worry terribly about the Rival RD warranty, although if SRAM warrnties it, why not. The Rival RD is far cheaper than the frame.

I thought $1600 for the SuperSix is a deal, since it was selling for double that not long ago?
1600 bucks is a great deal IMHO. The only catch is that you can't get one now and what sucks is that the original system six bike was 2300 bucks 17 months ago.
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Old 06-16-09, 06:34 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by tosterbe View Post
1600 bucks is a great deal IMHO. The only catch is that you can't get one now and what sucks is that the original system six bike was 2300 bucks 17 months ago.
The other catch is that they're offering the OP that frame as a crash replacement for $1600. Not really a deal considering that the special offer they were running these days was $1600 for the brand new frame PERIOD. If it was really a crash replacement "offer" then it should be lower than what the frame is already going for (two teammates of mine bought the frameset on offer this week for the $1600 price)
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Old 06-16-09, 07:00 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by tosterbe View Post
1600 bucks is a great deal IMHO. The only catch is that you can't get one now and what sucks is that the original system six bike was 2300 bucks 17 months ago.
It's not a great deal in this case. The OP is replacing, not upgrading. Also, he's replacing due to what appears to be a defect in the RD. It doesn't matter how much spare coin you have laying around, there's better things to do with 1600 than replace stuff you already have.

OP: Definitely talk to SRAM. You might get squat but try.

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Old 06-16-09, 09:50 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Walter View Post
It's not a great deal in this case. The OP is replacing, not upgrading. Also, he's replacing due to what appears to be a defect in the RD. It doesn't matter how much spare coin you have laying around, there's better things to do with 1600 than replace stuff you already have.

OP: Definitely talk to SRAM. You might get squat but try.

Quick update. I talked with a manager type at SRAM today. The manager was very apologetic and is arranging to have the frame and detonated parts sent to SRAM for evaluation. We've not talked turkey yet as to how things will shake out. I am hopeful that SRAM will kick in some $ towards the frame replacement and/or provide some of the parts that I need to replace (crankset is bb30 on the new frame).

I really doubt that I would get this far with campy or shimano.

Time will tell how this shakes out. Anybody have dates on when the 2010 super six will actually be available?
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Old 06-17-09, 10:33 PM
  #74  
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SRAM totally came through for me. They did some behind the scenes magic with cannndale and found a replacement frameset for me. It is being shipped to my LBS this weak. In addition to the framset, SRAM is including a new crankset at the frame is now BB30.

Total cost out of pocket for me: beer and pizza for the LBS shop for helping me out

I thought I was going to be lucky to get a crankset for the frame and I was looking at having to wait until late summer to get it at the earliest. What else can I say. Big props for SRAM.
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Old 06-17-09, 10:46 PM
  #75  
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Wow.
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