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New Nike Just Do It Spot with Lance.

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

New Nike Just Do It Spot with Lance.

Old 07-01-09, 08:44 AM
  #226  
Kurt Erlenbach
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Originally Posted by pacificaslim View Post
Here's why I usually can't stand cancer survivors: they are often totally insensitive to those who didn't make it. They usually credit one of two things for why they survived. Either they fought really hard, or they prayed really hard and god saved them. They will tell you all about both of those things, in excruciating, self-congratulatory detail. If that doesn't describe any of you here or your relatives you are writing about, then great: you're not the kind of survivor I'm talking about. But you know the ones I am talking about. We encounter their stories every day.

Well...by telling us how they beat cancer, by creating the myth that one is in charge of his own destiny against cancer and that it's all about the personal fight against it and that's what will beat it, what does that say about the people who didn't make it? I guess they just didn't fight hard enough or just didn't pray hard enough.

I've seen a lot of cancer in my friends and family, and I'm here to tell you that the idea above is crap. For your consideration: I buried my mother at 49 and my father at 58. Both lived very healthy lifestyles. Both followed all their doctor's advice and suffered through chemo. Both fought hard. Both prayed to their god and had the support of their communities. Neither lived more than a year after diagnosis.

So to be bombarded with the American cancer myth, the concept that all one needs to do to survive is fight hard and pray is terribly insulting. (America's cancer myth is kind of like the "American Dream" concept that if one tries hard, he will be a success and the flip side of that is of course the attitude that those who aren't successful have no one to blame but themselves because they just haven't tried hard enough in life. yeah, sure, that explains everything.)

From what I've seen out there, I'm pretty convinced it's just pretty much luck if one beats cancer or not. To take credit for saving oneself or inspiring another person to save themselves is a little too much for those of us whose loved ones didn't survive to stomach. Call that attitude despicable if you want, but it's one that's been dumped on me. Trust me, I'd much rather not have had the experiences that have led me to adopt that attitude.

The bottom line to me is that cancer sucks and the focus needs to be on research and prevention and truly effective treatments, not personal motivational bs and prayer. Actual scientific research is what will save people of the future. Cancer needs to be seen as a science problem, a research problem, a societal problem, a global crisis, and so on... and not be viewed as a series of singular personal struggles.
My survivor's guilt approxiamtely equals your victim's anger. I also am uncomfortalbe with the cancer survivor's industry. I get a bunch of magazines sent to me for free ("Cure" and "Heal" and someting from the Moffit Cancer Center) that i don't want and don't read. I was a church trustee and a Sunday school teacher before I got sick; now I am much less certain. I worked my ass off trying to get healthy after finishing chemo the first time around, and the cancer came back anyway. I was the healthiest, most aerobically fit person in the surgery wing after the cancer that had metastasized to my liver was removed. And that helped me recover faster. I now probably have beaten cancer that had me in the 30% five-year survival rate category.

I don't think praying helps, and i don't think that praying for other people helps. I think that working hard to stay fit during chemo helps, because it allows you to get a full dose of chemo rather than forcing a reduction in the amount you can take when the side effects get too severe. I think that fitness after chemo matters, because it helps your body fight off remaining cancer cells, and it helps reduce the lingering side effects. I fully understand that these things have marginal effects, and that without good doctors and good luck, I'd be dead now.

And I think that hating the cancer, rather than the survivors, is the better course of action. I also find some survivors and thier "Hurrah for me" attitude rather overbearing. But organizations like LiveStrong give help and hope to those in the fight, and that is a good thing. Even for those who do not make it.

I am very sorry for the loss of your parents. No one should have to go through that. And I hope that at some point soon no else will.

Last edited by Kurt Erlenbach; 07-01-09 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 07-01-09, 08:54 AM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by pacificaslim View Post
Here's why I usually can't stand cancer survivors: they are often totally insensitive to those who didn't make it. They usually credit one of two things for why they survived. Either they fought really hard, or they prayed really hard and god saved them. They will tell you all about both of those things, in excruciating, self-congratulatory detail. If that doesn't describe any of you here or your relatives you are writing about, then great: you're not the kind of survivor I'm talking about. But you know the ones I am talking about. We encounter their stories every day.

Well...by telling us how they beat cancer, by creating the myth that one is in charge of his own destiny against cancer and that it's all about the personal fight against it and that's what will beat it, what does that say about the people who didn't make it? I guess they just didn't fight hard enough or just didn't pray hard enough.

I've seen a lot of cancer in my friends and family, and I'm here to tell you that the idea above is crap. For your consideration: I buried my mother at 49 and my father at 58. Both lived very healthy lifestyles. Both followed all their doctor's advice and suffered through chemo. Both fought hard. Both prayed to their god and had the support of their communities. Neither lived more than a year after diagnosis.

So to be bombarded with the American cancer myth, the concept that all one needs to do to survive is fight hard and pray is terribly insulting. (America's cancer myth is kind of like the "American Dream" concept that if one tries hard, he will be a success and the flip side of that is of course the attitude that those who aren't successful have no one to blame but themselves because they just haven't tried hard enough in life. yeah, sure, that explains everything.)

From what I've seen out there, I'm pretty convinced it's just pretty much luck if one beats cancer or not. To take credit for saving oneself or inspiring another person to save themselves is a little too much for those of us whose loved ones didn't survive to stomach. Call that attitude despicable if you want, but it's one that's been dumped on me. Trust me, I'd much rather not have had the experiences that have led me to adopt that attitude.

The bottom line to me is that cancer sucks and the focus needs to be on research and prevention and truly effective treatments, not personal motivational bs and prayer. Actual scientific research is what will save people of the future. Cancer needs to be seen as a science problem, a research problem, a societal problem, a global crisis, and so on... and not be viewed as a series of singular personal struggles.
You make some good points. I also question the implication that people who lost the battle (my loved ones included) didn't somehow "fight hard enough" but I don't hold that against the survivors. Good for them.

The fight against cancer should be viewed as a global crisis but the daily struggle against the disease is very very personal.


Once again, F cancer.



Oh and I don't wear a pink ribbon because it matches my eyes.
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Old 07-01-09, 09:01 AM
  #228  
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Some of the responses here are unfathomable. But they can say whatever they want. I didn't start this thread for them.
Shame on everyone who didn't see the wisdom of ending the thread with this pithy full-circle post.
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Old 07-01-09, 09:08 AM
  #229  
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Yeah pacificaslim, I too regret the loss of your parents to cancer, that's very tough. But your overall view of cancer differs from mine greatly. We've all had cancer and death from the disease in our families. The response to that is passionate and personal.

If I offended you with my flip responses, I apologize. Just don't see it the same way.
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Old 07-01-09, 09:14 AM
  #230  
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You can go back to watching the TeleTubbies now.


Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
Cheesy commercial.
Pretty pathetic.
Feel good story, inter-spliced clips of him riding his bike with people in hospital.
Lots of camera shake to add a sense of "speed".
Create a "victim" out of Lance, then build him up to be a hero by saying "I dont do it for them' at the end. Good play on the gun slinging I dont give an F yankee attitude.

Very formulaic, predictable. From his opening line, "critics say... blah, blah" I knew the closing line would be something like, "but I dont care" or "but i dont do it for blah, blah"

I give it a 2 out of 10. And the 2 is for color correction on the footage.

The wool is pulled over you.
Amusing peasants.

Marketing I admit is a powerful tool.
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Old 07-01-09, 09:20 AM
  #231  
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You all need to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y - May contain expletives.
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Old 07-01-09, 09:28 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by txvintage View Post
You can go back to watching the TeleTubbies now.
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Old 07-01-09, 09:33 AM
  #233  
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@HigherGround: Awesome entries. :}
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Old 07-01-09, 09:36 AM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
Actually the responses are very interesting. The amount of emotional energy uselessly expended by people for nothing more than establishing to a bunch of strangers that they are RIGHT and everyone else is WRONG is interesting.

Negativity feeds on itself. Let it. Those who live on it will eventually be consumed by their own negativity in one way or another. Trying to convince someone of this is difficult, especially when they would rather be RIGHT than HAPPY.

Resume idiocy.




/hot as a ride through death valley
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Old 07-01-09, 09:52 AM
  #235  
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The peasants are riding $6000 Cervelos.
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Old 07-01-09, 10:06 AM
  #236  
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as hard as it is to see, everyone is saying the same thing. nobody (i hope) in this thread thinks that cancer is a good thing. everyone in this thread (i hope) thinks that we need to find a cure or solution on something for the cancer epidemic. some people think that lance is less than honorable because they think he's a doper or because he and nike are just out for exposure and brand loyalty and money. but i would like to read an intelligent post from someone that says that the millions of dollars that lance and nike contribute and raise for cancer research, prevention and helping those with cancer is in any way a bad thing. i admit that nike and even lance makes a tremendous profit off of all of this. but even if nike or even lance doesn't give two sheets about cancer or prevention or anything to do with cancer (which they obviously do, but i'll indulge the detractors) it doesnt discount the fact that they are putting millions of dollars towards cancer research that previously wouldnt have been contributed. if you can prove to me that money towards cancer research is a bad thing, then MAZOL TOV! good for you! you shoud be appointed king of the universe. because i would REALLY like to read that evidence
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Old 07-01-09, 10:07 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
The peasants are riding $6000 Cervelos.
Yea, but you're no Brandy.
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Old 07-01-09, 10:13 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by txvintage View Post
Yea, but you're no Brandy.
Technically, for the purposes of this idiotic discussion, she's a Velo Wench. Potentially a Witch.
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Old 07-01-09, 10:22 AM
  #239  
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i have never heard it suggested or implied that anyone who died of cancer didnt fight hard enough.

and i work in a hospital with a significant cancer center.

theres absolutely nothing bad or wrong or insensitive about trying to inspire strength and will and determination and hope in people battling cancer. and it neednt be at the expense of the casualties of the fight.

sometimes you guys i just dont know
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Old 07-01-09, 10:27 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by badhat View Post
i have never heard it suggested or implied that anyone who died of cancer didnt fight hard enough.

and i work in a hospital with a significant cancer center.

theres absolutely nothing bad or wrong or insensitive about trying to inspire strength and will and determination and hope in people battling cancer. and it neednt be at the expense of the casualties of the fight.
I thought that all went without saying. Apparently not. I have little doubt that inspiration and positivity have a positive impact on cancer survival rates.
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Old 07-01-09, 10:30 AM
  #241  
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i just found my jaw dropping a little bit at a few of the posts in this thread and thier implication that theres something insensitive to the dead or exploitative about what lance is doing.

is he getting paid? of course he is, so are our oncologists and cancer nurses and rad techs. they wouldnt come to work if they werent. doesnt mean they arent making a positive impact.

get a grip folks.
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Old 07-01-09, 10:42 AM
  #242  
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Cool ad. I like Lance; always have but I truely believe the commercial would have had more impact if he was wearing this outfit. I am kind of sick of the yellow.

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Old 07-01-09, 11:09 AM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by Crash_Enburn View Post
@HigherGround: Awesome entries. :}
Thanks, I appreciate that!

Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Technically, for the purposes of this idiotic discussion, she's a Velo Wench. Potentially a Witch.
I could use a Velo Wench. I wish ProBikeKit.com would stock them, because one with a British accent would be especially nice.
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Old 07-01-09, 12:17 PM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by badhat View Post
i have never heard it suggested or implied that anyone who died of cancer didnt fight hard enough.

and i work in a hospital with a significant cancer center.

theres absolutely nothing bad or wrong or insensitive about trying to inspire strength and will and determination and hope in people battling cancer. and it neednt be at the expense of the casualties of
Some people are finding that all the marketing Lance is doing is basically saying that it his will to survive that made him survive and nothing else. There is never anything Lance does or says that gives credit to his pharmacological treatment. Its all about him, and nothing else. That effectively implies that those that dont survive didnt have a will to live like he did?
The problem is that he is gallivanting around with an arrogance about his survival, that cancer has no match against his "iron" will, and not only that, no one in the Tour De France is serious about winning, only he is.

He just ought to be more gracious about his survival. I think thats what people are trying to say.
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Old 07-01-09, 12:26 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
Some people are finding that all the marketing Lance is doing is basically saying that it his will to survive that made him survive and nothing else. There is never anything Lance does or says that gives credit to his pharmacological treatment. Its all about him, and nothing else. That effectively implies that those that dont survive didnt have a will to live like he did?
The problem is that he is gallivanting around with an arrogance about his survival, that cancer has no match against his "iron" will, and not only that, no one in the Tour De France is serious about winning, only he is.

He just ought to be more gracious about his survival. I think thats what people are trying to say.
who are these people? when did lance say all of that? cause i'm pretty sure that he's stated on numerous instances that he had the best doctors in the world and the best treatments and thats one of the main reasons he survived. why dont you leave your computer for a few days, finish "it's not about the bike", and then get back to us
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Old 07-01-09, 12:39 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by pacificaslim View Post
Here's why I usually can't stand cancer survivors: they are often totally insensitive to those who didn't make it.
Wow, how unfortunate for YOU!

The survivors that I know are very humble and grateful. Oh, and many of them love Lance which is what really pisses the haters off the most weather they admit it or not.

Last edited by wirelessness; 07-01-09 at 12:42 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-01-09, 01:47 PM
  #247  
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i really cant believe someone started a post with "heres why i usually cant stand cancer survivors"
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Old 07-01-09, 01:53 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by badhat View Post
i really cant believe someone started a post with "heres why i usually cant stand cancer survivors"
indeed.

on a personal note: My father died from cancer at a rather young age. He gave up early and it just tore through him. I am a strong proponent in the mind being fully engaged in recovery.


and:

Nobody has a special right to grief. We all know it.
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Old 07-01-09, 02:03 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
indeed.

on a personal note: My father died from cancer at a rather young age. He gave up early and it just tore through him. I am a strong proponent in the mind being fully engaged in recovery.


and:


Nobody has a special right to grief. We all know it.

Yeah but mine is special and yours isn't
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Old 07-01-09, 02:45 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post

Nobody has a special right to grief. We all know it.
I feel that as Pcad, I have a special right to dish out grief on BF.

But that's different.
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