Pcad Dura Ace 7900 Wrap Up
07-01-09, 08:14 PM
#76
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by RoadToNowhere
Wow.
You know when you leave something for a while.. and you return, and nothing has changed.... and there's some weird comfort in that?
Pcad, I've missed you
Beth
You know when you leave something for a while.. and you return, and nothing has changed.... and there's some weird comfort in that?
Pcad, I've missed you
Beth
07-01-09, 08:18 PM
#77
mamafitz
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Originally Posted by patentcad
But you had escaped. Why would you ever come back to this place? Isn't that like breaking back into prison?
07-01-09, 09:45 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by Howzit
Why go from good to worse when you can go better with Campy?
SRAM is junk. If it wasnt American no one would buy that junk.
SRAM is junk. If it wasnt American no one would buy that junk.
Originally Posted by Howzit
I havent ridden it, so I guess its not a fair statement.
07-01-09, 10:34 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by coasting
why didn't shimano shifters come with shimano cables? when i bought 105 shifters they came with the sis cables. seems odd if they come as a set.
Originally Posted by patentcad
They rely on Pcad, The Voice of BF Reason, to bridge the chasm.
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
The difference is, I'm correct. And for the record, I'm actually listed as "independent". I don't need anyone to tell me how to think. Especially someone in the f****ng government.
Case in point, I hear things are going well in Albany these days...this is what happens when lunatics get to be in charge.
Case in point, I hear things are going well in Albany these days...this is what happens when lunatics get to be in charge.
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg
California does NOT have anything remotely approaching a revenue problem.......
https://reason.org/news/show/1007038.html
back to your regularly scheduled programming
https://reason.org/news/show/1007038.html
back to your regularly scheduled programming
Originally Posted by patentcad
What the F isn't made in Taiwan these days?
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Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.
07-01-09, 11:36 PM
#80
Not as fast as I was
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Originally Posted by patentcad
What the F isn't made in Taiwan these days?
07-02-09, 03:24 AM
#82
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Originally Posted by halfspeed
I'm listed as an 'independent' too and for the same reasons. But with all due respect, I still think you're full of crap.
07-02-09, 03:28 AM
#83
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Originally Posted by RichinPeoria
RoadWarrior and botto are your sock puppets anyhow so what does it matter
botto, Pcad and I are what you dream of becoming every waking moment of your life.
But you'll never get there.
07-02-09, 05:02 AM
#84
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
But you'll never get there.
07-02-09, 06:30 AM
#85
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Originally Posted by RichinPeoria
I cant be a shill since I am in no way associated or compensated in any way by Campagnolo.
I just know their stuff is the best and I want to tell everybody!
lets review
Shill
-wiki
A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods or services or support the political group's ideological claims. Shills are often employed by confidence artists. The term plant is also used. Shill bidding, found on many auction sites such as eBay, is punishable by law[1] and may result in fines and or prosecution.
Shilling is illegal in many circumstances and in many jurisdictions because of the frequently fraudulent and damaging character of their actions. However, if a shill does not place uninformed parties at a risk of loss, but merely generates "buzz", the shill's actions may be legal. For example, a person planted in an audience to laugh and applaud when desired (see claque), or to participate in on-stage activities as a "random member of the audience", is a type of legal shill.
"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, possibly because their income is tied to its prosperity
I just know their stuff is the best and I want to tell everybody!
lets review
Shill
-wiki
A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods or services or support the political group's ideological claims. Shills are often employed by confidence artists. The term plant is also used. Shill bidding, found on many auction sites such as eBay, is punishable by law[1] and may result in fines and or prosecution.
Shilling is illegal in many circumstances and in many jurisdictions because of the frequently fraudulent and damaging character of their actions. However, if a shill does not place uninformed parties at a risk of loss, but merely generates "buzz", the shill's actions may be legal. For example, a person planted in an audience to laugh and applaud when desired (see claque), or to participate in on-stage activities as a "random member of the audience", is a type of legal shill.
"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, possibly because their income is tied to its prosperity
07-02-09, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
With all due respect, I don't care what you think. But thanks for your input.
__________________
Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.
Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.
07-02-09, 07:04 AM
#88
Jet Jockey
Back on topic...I remember reading somewhere after the release of 7900 that the engineers at Shimano were adamant about their traditional cable routing (the arcs outside of the handlebar wrap) providing better shifting; this is due to fewer bends in the cable. They changed it mainly because cyclists simply wanted under-the-wrap routing, no matter what that may do for function.
__________________
Good night...and good luck
Good night...and good luck
07-02-09, 07:59 AM
#89
Senior Member
Originally Posted by KiddSisko
For the cost of one Campy S Record crank, you can buy an entire Sram Rival groupset.
Bought from the right source, you can get comparable quality and capability at a similar price with Campy products. You should be comparing Campy Centaur to that low level SRAM.
I know it's popular to perpetuate the Campy-is-expensive myth, but it's just not true. Resale value, longevity of the components and the ability to make repairs all need to be considered.
When I moved on to 11 speed, I sold 2 year old Record shifters for $140 (with a new cable set) and got new Record 11 shifters (with cables) for $240. My 5 year old Record RD brought me $95 and I only paid about $180 when new. The cost of ownership on all of my 10 speed parts was quite low.
07-02-09, 10:33 AM
#90
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Originally Posted by patentcad
After five months on this stuff my impressions:
It's lighter, I like the new esthetics, I like the hidden cables on the bars.
I like the new brifter hood shape very much, better than the old style
At first I wasn't impressed with the shifting. A recent upgrade to Shimano SIS cables made a huge difference, now I like it. The lever throw however is longer than it was with 7800, and I consider that a negative. That being said, once you get used to it, 7900 shifts flawlessly.
The brakes are by far the best bicycle brakes I've used. Noticeably more effective.
Overall, very satisfied, much more so since the cable upgrade. That's key. Many OEM bikes ship with cheaper cables (the Cervelo did). The Shimano reps say the SIS cables are important, they appear to be correct. I do like the fact that I was able to incorporate the 7800 bubble indicator on the 7900 cables. If you can find a spot on your bike where that would be visible, it's not hard to do.
It's lighter, I like the new esthetics, I like the hidden cables on the bars.
I like the new brifter hood shape very much, better than the old style
At first I wasn't impressed with the shifting. A recent upgrade to Shimano SIS cables made a huge difference, now I like it. The lever throw however is longer than it was with 7800, and I consider that a negative. That being said, once you get used to it, 7900 shifts flawlessly.
The brakes are by far the best bicycle brakes I've used. Noticeably more effective.
Overall, very satisfied, much more so since the cable upgrade. That's key. Many OEM bikes ship with cheaper cables (the Cervelo did). The Shimano reps say the SIS cables are important, they appear to be correct. I do like the fact that I was able to incorporate the 7800 bubble indicator on the 7900 cables. If you can find a spot on your bike where that would be visible, it's not hard to do.
07-02-09, 11:08 AM
#91
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
Apples and oranges?
I know it's popular to perpetuate the Campy-is-expensive myth, but it's just not true. Resale value, longevity of the components and the ability to make repairs all need to be considered.
When I moved on to 11 speed, I sold 2 year old Record shifters for $140 (with a new cable set) and got new Record 11 shifters (with cables) for $240. My 5 year old Record RD brought me $95 and I only paid about $180 when new. The cost of ownership on all of my 10 speed parts was quite low.
I know it's popular to perpetuate the Campy-is-expensive myth, but it's just not true. Resale value, longevity of the components and the ability to make repairs all need to be considered.
When I moved on to 11 speed, I sold 2 year old Record shifters for $140 (with a new cable set) and got new Record 11 shifters (with cables) for $240. My 5 year old Record RD brought me $95 and I only paid about $180 when new. The cost of ownership on all of my 10 speed parts was quite low.
The simple facts are that from a pure value standpoint SRAM is the best deal out there right now.
I'm not a racer so my bike is both a jewel and a tool so I am sometime willing to pay for something just for the snob appeal....but I like DA better than Record so and think it functions better....but that's just my opinion and only worth what you paid for it
07-02-09, 02:12 PM
#92
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by PipinFan
Thanks for the info... how do you compare the DA 7900 with Sram Red? have you experienced Sram? I love Shimano but I think I will give Sram a chance next..
07-02-09, 04:10 PM
#93
Has coddling tendencies.
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
Apples and oranges?
Bought from the right source, you can get comparable quality and capability at a similar price with Campy products. You should be comparing Campy Centaur to that low level SRAM.
I know it's popular to perpetuate the Campy-is-expensive myth, but it's just not true. Resale value, longevity of the components and the ability to make repairs all need to be considered.
When I moved on to 11 speed, I sold 2 year old Record shifters for $140 (with a new cable set) and got new Record 11 shifters (with cables) for $240. My 5 year old Record RD brought me $95 and I only paid about $180 when new. The cost of ownership on all of my 10 speed parts was quite low.
Bought from the right source, you can get comparable quality and capability at a similar price with Campy products. You should be comparing Campy Centaur to that low level SRAM.
I know it's popular to perpetuate the Campy-is-expensive myth, but it's just not true. Resale value, longevity of the components and the ability to make repairs all need to be considered.
When I moved on to 11 speed, I sold 2 year old Record shifters for $140 (with a new cable set) and got new Record 11 shifters (with cables) for $240. My 5 year old Record RD brought me $95 and I only paid about $180 when new. The cost of ownership on all of my 10 speed parts was quite low.
07-02-09, 07:11 PM
#94
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Originally Posted by patentcad
I've only ridden Sram Red around the block, I think I could get used to it. I'd give it a chance. But my overall impression is that it's lower quality than the D.A.(also that of my LBS), and I hear mixed reviews from users and mechanics on it. Some love it, some not so much.
Same here,some people say it good and others that is not as smooth as DA,not even close... I don't know but I'm so used to DA that I don't think I should change it... but I have time to decide,one day I'm all Sram and another I'm Shimano...but Shimano is on my mind 70% of the time.
07-03-09, 08:20 AM
#95
Senior Member
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg
These things are all true of Shimano and SRAM as well. You got screwed on your resale of Record shifters. I sold some 7800 shifters for $195 without cables. Campy still costs more to begin with than either Shimano or SRAM (at comparable levels) and you can resell both of those if you want to upgrade. The facts are that Campy charges a premium for a product that performs essentially exactly the same as the other two. If you want to pay that premium...go ahead but some people don't want to. I like DA (7800 at least) better than Red but that's just a personal preference and many differ. Shimano also charges a premium over SRAM so.....
The simple facts are that from a pure value standpoint SRAM is the best deal out there right now.
I'm not a racer so my bike is both a jewel and a tool so I am sometime willing to pay for something just for the snob appeal....but I like DA better than Record so and think it functions better....but that's just my opinion and only worth what you paid for it
The simple facts are that from a pure value standpoint SRAM is the best deal out there right now.
I'm not a racer so my bike is both a jewel and a tool so I am sometime willing to pay for something just for the snob appeal....but I like DA better than Record so and think it functions better....but that's just my opinion and only worth what you paid for it
Some parts, like the shifters, cost far LESS than the competition. I only paid $100 to upgrade my two year old Record shifters from 10 speed to 11 speed and I made no attempt to get a high price from the old shifters. I just put a low buy-it-now price on E-bay and sold the shifters in about 10 minutes. I'm sure that an extended auction would have produced a higher price, but I'm often generous with my old parts sales. I only paid $270 for some of my Record 10 shifters, when new. Same for my 5 year old RD and 5 year old brakes. I got over half what I paid for them in about 5 minutes on E-bay.
As for function, DA7900 can only shift one cog smaller with a tap of the finger lever. Campy can still drop 5 cogs smaller with a push of the thumb button and 3-cogs larger with one sweep of the finger lever. DA 7900 can only shift 2-cogs larger with a sweep of the brake lever (a loss of function). The DA shifters are also heavier, in addition to being priced a lot higher. I can also repair Campy shifters, but the new design has eliminated the most frequently replaced item (g-springs) and is rarely expected to need maintenance. If maintenace is needed, the new shifters are simple to take apart. Even the cheapest 10 speed Veloce ultrashift lever can also be upgraded to 11 speed.
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...2009+ergopower
Last edited by DaveSSS; 07-03-09 at 08:31 AM.
07-03-09, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by botto
unless shimano comes out with something better, i will most liekly switch to clunky sram with my next bike.
07-03-09, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by itri-45
I'm looking for a new group too and wonder if the new Ultegra will be better. I don't really like the required BB maintenance on the Red.
07-03-09, 12:39 PM
#98
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Originally Posted by Scorer75
Why would the cables make that much of a difference?
07-13-09, 11:09 AM
#100
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Having had a good test ride on a bike with Rival, and owning a bike with Ultegra, I honestly prefer the Rival. This is, of course, just an opinion from a rank amateur who probably has less miles total than most of you do in a good week, but there it is.
I haven't tried Campy yet, and much as I want to drool over Italians, I'm not sure how I'd feel about the thumb shifters. We will see, hopefully.
I haven't tried Campy yet, and much as I want to drool over Italians, I'm not sure how I'd feel about the thumb shifters. We will see, hopefully.
