Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Give me a Brake!

Old 07-10-09, 11:07 AM
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Fixitman
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Give me a Brake!

Looking for recomendations for brake upgrade.

I have 2009 Ultegra brakes with salmon cool stop pads. I would like just a little more stopping power. Are the Dura Ace brakes any better in this regard, or are the just lighter?
I would appreciate hearing recommendations from people who are using the Dura Ace or other alternate braking systems.

For what its worth these are on a 2009 Cervelo RS
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Old 07-10-09, 11:16 AM
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Disc brake on the front.
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Old 07-10-09, 11:21 AM
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kool stops with ultegra calipers? you will effectively get no more braking power from any upgrade, you may shed a little weight, but you've got just about as good as it gets for braking power.

some may mention swiss stop pads, they are good too, a little different feel, but the difference in stopping power wont be any better than what you have now.

i suspect you are used to mountain or hybrid typed brakes, road brakes never feel as solid. in most cases, the limiting factor in stopping ability for road bikes is the friction between the tire and the road, not the brake pads and the rim. this has been my experience anyway.
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Old 07-10-09, 11:23 AM
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If you need more stopping power than Ultegra brakes and Kool-Stop pads give you, then you are either a colossal fat ass, riding down the side of Mt. St. Helens, or both.
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Old 07-10-09, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
...then you are either a colossal fat ass...
Wow, that's pretty severe
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Old 07-10-09, 11:32 AM
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make sure they are adjusted properly. you should have more then enouggh braking force.
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Old 07-10-09, 11:34 AM
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also breaking is really to slow down a little, if you need something that makes you stop on a dime, something else probably went wrong already
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Old 07-10-09, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by khatfull View Post
Wow, that's pretty severe
As opposed to SLIGHT ******...
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Old 07-10-09, 11:37 AM
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Old news: Secret to good braking these days is the angle of the pads. Front of pads adjusted slightly toward the rims makes for nice feathered braking. Feathered like a shag haircut from the 70's.
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Old 07-10-09, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
If you need more stopping power than Ultegra brakes and Kool-Stop pads give you, then you are either a colossal fat ass, riding down the side of Mt. St. Helens, or both.
Yes to the 2nd, no to the 1st, but I am 180 lbs.
The hills I come down are steep and I would like to be able to brake a little later when I come up on a turn.
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Old 07-10-09, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by kimconyc View Post
Disc brake on the front.
Look into this.
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Old 07-10-09, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kimconyc View Post
Disc brake on the front.
Why not front & rear? Why do road bikes not come with this set up ... Weight or ???
Can these be put on any wheel? Will the brifters need to be changed?
In other wordes what are the pros, cons, expence & hassle factor.
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Old 07-10-09, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AngryScientist View Post
kool stops with ultegra calipers? you will effectively get no more braking power from any upgrade, you may shed a little weight, but you've got just about as good as it gets for braking power.

some may mention swiss stop pads, they are good too, a little different feel, but the difference in stopping power wont be any better than what you have now.

i suspect you are used to mountain or hybrid typed brakes, road brakes never feel as solid. in most cases, the limiting factor in stopping ability for road bikes is the friction between the tire and the road, not the brake pads and the rim. this has been my experience anyway.
+1... but if you insist on an upgrade, DA 7800 for $129...

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...TOP_PARENT.ID=
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Old 07-10-09, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Fixitman View Post
Why not front & rear? Why do road bikes not come with this set up ... Weight or ???
Can these be put on any wheel? Will the brifters need to be changed?
In other wordes what are the pros, cons, expence & hassle factor.
I said front because of weight and the real stopping power should be coming from the front.

This is Levi Leipheimer's rain bike:
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Old 07-10-09, 12:40 PM
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I'm a buck eighty too, and I've raced on Ultegra brakes, stock pads, for eons (now on other brakes, but just because that's what the bike came with).

You can test your brakes as follows:
1. Go really fast. Slam on front brake as hard as possible. If you flip over the bars, the brake is fine.
2. Go really fast. Slam on rear brake as hard as possible. If your back tire skids, the brake is fine.

Okay, don't really do that. But you understand.

If your brakes pass the above two tests, the limitation is not the brake (and it almost never is). The limitation is in technique.

(Similarly, if you slam on your car's brakes, and the ABS kicks in, your brakes are fine. Your traction needs work if you want to stop better. Usually wider front tires will improve one-time stopping performance in a car. However, "good" brakes also dissipate heat better so you can brake repeatedly. So although you may not stop in a shorter distance on the first stop with "good" brakes, you will be stopping more consistently for the next 10 stops).

- Get your butt way off the rear of the seat. I'll rest my stomach/chest on the saddle sometimes. This allows you to keep from flipping over at higher braking forces. You can brake much harder on the front wheel this way.
- Brake before turns. Braking firmly and turning hard don't mix well.
- Don't feather as much as brake. When I first went down Palomar (takes me 30+ minutes), I was nervous, didn't know the curves, and basically rode the brakes all the way down. My hands were tired, I had to stop, etc etc. After that, I felt a bit more comfortable on the descent. I'd let the bike go, brake firmly before turns, and let the bike accelerate through and out of the turns. No need to stop, no hand wringing, all good. I've only descended the whole thing maybe 4 or 5 times so it's not like I'm super experienced on the mountain, it's just that I learned how to better approach a series of curves on a long descent.

If you have carbon rims, you may have brake limitations because the rims don't dissipate heat well. The last two times I did Palomar I did them on aluminum rims because I wasn't sure if I was losing my nerve or if the carbon rims weren't ideal for Palomar.

cdr
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Old 07-10-09, 12:43 PM
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Old 07-10-09, 12:45 PM
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I like the Swiss Stop pads. Green for AL rims and Yellow for carbon.
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Old 07-10-09, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by uspspro View Post
I like the Swiss Stop pads. Green for AL rims and Yellow for carbon.
Or the black, which I have. I think they're compatible with both.
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Old 07-10-09, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ATB24 View Post
also breaking is really to slow down a little, if you need something that makes you stop on a dime, something else probably went wrong already
If it's breaking he's doing, then the brakes are stopping him too well, or not at all. An adjustment is all he'll need.
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Old 07-10-09, 01:06 PM
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Try adjusting the travel, as in how "loose" or "tight" they are.

It's kinda personal preference, but you'll be able to figure out whether you prefer the brakes to grab instantly when you tug on the levers or if you'd want to be able to squeeze the levers a little more.

Besides that, and assuming that the pads are adjusted properly and you're pulling below the pivot point of the levers, you can't escape the fact that skinny, high-pressure tires will never brake as well as fat, wide, lower-pressure tires. More rubber on the ground means more grip.
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Old 07-10-09, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
Or the black, which I have. I think they're compatible with both.
Blacks are alu only! Yellows go both ways!
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