joe_5700

I tracked my progress for training for a Duathlon on a loop in my neighborhood that has some good hill climbs and is just over 4 miles. If you click on the link below you can see the spreadsheet where I tracked my times and wind conditions.

https://www.geocities.com/fenced_in_o...eTraining2.xls

I recently got another bike of higher quality. Magically I was able to best any of my previous times with similar wind conditions on my first run. Last night I was able to have my best run ever even though I was thinking about aborting the run due to not feeling very well. Also keep in mind that I am not 100% confident in my riding/shifting/cornering on the new bike yet.

Improving the engine is important, but a more efficient bike certainly doesn't hurt. I need to do some more no wind runs on my old bike to rule out that only the engine got faster. I will also soon do some runs on my wife's Trek 7100 to see how much more time it takes on that bike.

merlinextraligh

Massive fail. There are about 20 uncontrolled variables. Besides you were faster a couple of times on the Jamis, with only minor wind differences.

botto 

joe_5700

I wouldn't call this a fail, or rather a failure quite yet. I am still compiling data and I will be timing more runs. What are the 20 uncontrolled variables? I will tell you that in all runs, traffic is not one of those variables. All of the runs have also occured at the same time of the day every single time. I just find it interesting that I was able to get my best time so far on the new bike when I honestly thought I was going to be sick after the first quarter mile....

umd

If your new bike is lighter or more aero it may be "faster" but cost is not necessarily a factor.

Edit: You also may have just been working harder because you were excited about your new bike, which could also explain why you didn't feel good. Often the best performances feel the worst.

joe_5700

I think cost is a factor. I bought both bikes new and the newer one cost nearly $1000 more. Now that being said, I would not mind if the times were exactly the same as the old bike because that means that I can just buy lower end bikes from now on and not worry about ever upgrading the Felt. I don't think I was working harder on the new bike over the old one. I give it 100% on those runs and I really do like my Jamis a lot. If anything I am fumbling a little bit with the 105 shifters since I am not used to them yet.

camhabib

There is a reason why when they test a drug, they give half the group the real substance and the other half an inert substitute. If someone can simply get better from just thinking a certain way, I don't think it's too much a stretch to say that someone could work a little harder to obtain a better time - whether or not they think they are.

It's hard to say what it was, environmental variables (air quality, wind, temperature), aero properties of the bike, how much physical activity you had the day before, etc. Fact is, you're faster, and hopefully that continues, however, as UMD pointed out, more money does not mean more speed, just more money.

redfooj

you mean to say you rode more and got faster?

umd

I repeat: If your new bike is lighter or more aero it may be "faster" but cost is not necessarily a factor. In other words it is the properties of the bike that may affect the speed not how much you paid for them. You could spend a lot of money of a bike and it could be heavier and less aerodynamic than a cheaper bike.

It is pretty much impossible to truly give 100% every time you go out. There are many things that can motivate us to push harder. Competition is the most common but new equipment is another. You also could have broken through a fitness plateau. Feeling bad is often an indicator that you are pushing through past limits and working harder than before.

Bacciagalupe

Uh huh. So I take it that the extra $1000 bought you some magic pixie dust that made your bike faster?

Factors that you are not tracking or may not be identical can include: rider position, tire type, temperature, rider fitness, emotional state, drivetrain cleanliness, among others. But mechanically, there isn't much reason for those two bikes to be substantially different.

Separately, 2 rides is nowhere near enough of a sample size, and 4.16 miles / 15 minutes per ride is way too short. Do about 10 rides of 50 miles on each bike, and check the results....

RoboCheme

Whatever the reason, it's great that you're doing better with the new bike. I, too, got faster with my new bike, but it could have been the excitement of the new machine. There was no denying that it did feel a lot better (stiffer, ride, handling), though.

merlinextraligh

Your presumably improving fitness, your actual power output on the given day, tire inflation, your weight, the actual wind conditions for starters. (5-10 mph is way too crude of variable, i.e you'll be faster if its 5 than if its 10.)

If you want to begin to make this at least a tiny bit scientific, Find an out and back course. Do a time trial effort on one bike, repeat on the other. Alternating back and forth 10 times. Do this several days, and alternate which bike you start with each day. Then test the results for statistical significance.

However, even this test will be thrown off by how fast you ride on the bike you perceive to be faster.

mattm

All I can say is that I got faster moving from a Bianchi Eros to a Ciocc. Who knows why, I don't really care but I do enjoy it.

My guess was moving up from Veloce to Centaur.

botto 

not a very good guess at that.

mattm

It was supposed to be a joke, but I don't use smilies so it failed. Fyi.

Velodad

My daughters bike is more expensive than mine. I put the two of them next to each other and they went exactly the same distance, at exactly the same speed. Then I put a skateboard next to them and it was the same.

This proves that skateboards are just as fast as bikes.

gregf83 

There is very little difference between the 'efficiency' of the two bikes you mentioned that would explain any measureable differences in performance. Even if you 4 mile loop was hilly the slight weight difference between the bikes could not account for the differences you are seeing. Most likely the difference is placebo or your new bike is putting you in a more aerodynamic position. Neither of these factors are related to the price of your bike.

VA_Esquire

I rode my 08 Felt F75 and then a friends S-Works and was slower on his. Your arguement is invalid.

grwoolf

I agree that the OP's original statement is a poor generaliztion and I don't think a judgement on his new bike is accurate without additional data points.

However, the statment could be valid if you can make a few assumptions. "More expensive" almost always translates to lower weight when it comes to road bikes (at least past a certain price point). If you assume all other things are the same (rider effort, geometry, gearing, aero, etc.), than I'd say a lighter (more expensive bike) is going to be faster based on the physics involved. So, just like Economics class, if we can assume a perfect world and ignore all the relevent variables, you can probably draw some kind of connection between higher price = lower weight = higher speed. It just doesn't translate to the real world and that's why I hated economics.

hansel

exactly, every bike is different, and no bike is perfect. if you ride a friends bike and find your faster on yours, it could be that its a new bike to you, you don't know the "tricks" to riding that bike. i dont think money is a factor to an extent. i have a old custom steel frame that feels like it cuts through the wind.... and its probably almost 2 times heavier than my new cannondale. every bike has its in's and out's

schnee

Man, I showed this thread to a couple of the researchers I work with and we all laughed and laughed.

Thanks for the entertainment, joe!

non-snark: the plural of anecdote is not data
non-snark: the definition of data is not what you think it is

merlinextraligh

Run the numbers in Kruezotter or Analyticcycling, and you'll be surprised how little difference a pound or two makes, particulary on grades below 8% or so.

DrPete 

I... I just...

BillyD

It's a fact . . . expensive bikes are even faster than red bikes. Everybody knows that!

That's why you never see any pros on anything but expensive bikes. Duh!










(Should I use any smilies?)

Walter

Expensive RED bikes are even faster yet. When I had one I used to pass motorcycles. On my expensive non-red bike they drop me faster than the proverbial hot rock...