How to Crash
07-22-09, 01:33 PM
#51
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07-22-09, 03:38 PM
#53
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07-22-09, 03:59 PM
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speaking from a medical point of view, sticking out an arm to break your fall is a really terrible way to do it. you can fracture a lot of different things that way. IF YOU CAN, you should try to lay the bike down and slide on your but or your side.
ripped bibs and a little road rash is nothing compared to breaking your arm in 3 spots.
ripped bibs and a little road rash is nothing compared to breaking your arm in 3 spots.
07-22-09, 04:04 PM
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speaking from a medical point of view, sticking out an arm to break your fall is a really terrible way to do it. you can fracture a lot of different things that way. IF YOU CAN, you should try to lay the bike down and slide on your but or your side.
ripped bibs and a little road rash is nothing compared to breaking your arm in 3 spots.
ripped bibs and a little road rash is nothing compared to breaking your arm in 3 spots.
As for the whole drunken / relaxed is better debate, I cannot offer any sound proof, but from years of skiing and falling hundreds of times on hard icy surfaces, I can speak from experience that when you tense up, issues arise. I'm not sure the medical reasoning behind this but would assume that it is because when you flex your muscles, you are applying a force contradicting the force of the impact. Trying to break a stick by holding one end of it and waving it around is hard, but breaking it holding it from two ends and applying a force (your knee for example) in the middle of it is easy.
Last edited by camhabib; 07-22-09 at 04:08 PM.
07-22-09, 04:06 PM
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it's all irrelevant. you'll be on the ground crying for mama before you know what's happening.
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07-22-09, 04:19 PM
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First thing you learn when you start ski racing, and I'm assuming it applies to bike racing / riding as well: don't tense up. Relaxed = better. I always try to land on the best padded part, which for me on my a bike is the palm of my glove, and make sure none of my joint are in a locked or fully extended position (straight arm + landing on hand = broken wrist).
07-22-09, 04:26 PM
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The risk of landing on your side, fracturing your hip, shoulder, or a rib that could easily puncture a lung is a far worse injury IMO. Wrists heel fine most times, hips do not (speaking from experience). It is even possible to ride with a broken wrist, not so for hip or shoulder in a huge cast.
07-22-09, 04:29 PM
#60
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if you're crashing in a group, try and grab onto somebody and bring them down too. that way, you'll have someone to help you chase back to the pack
07-22-09, 04:31 PM
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Crashes are fast and unexpected...you seldom have time to prepare.
You can train to respond by "practicing" crashing.
When I was coaching a juniors team we would set up a very short oval in a park, on grass, using cones to mark the course. We would slowly ride the oval side by side and practice leaning into each other, how to react/respond, how to use your shoulders, elbows and head to hold a rider, how to recover when overlapping a wheel...it is possible not to crash but not easy and takes practice...We would also play demo derby by trying to knock a rider down by any means possible...pulling, pushing, hitting your brakes, t-boning, etc. this was some of the most fun we had and after several weeks it was very difficult to knock one of us down. We would then practice...one at a time...going over the handle bars bars yanking the front brake while riding...Prior to this I taught my riders how to properly land, tuck and roll using skills I learned in martial arts...we then took this skill to the bike and would practice once a week in the spring, prior to racing season.
We used old beater bikes that looked better with the scars we put on them.
My riders were some of the best riders in their fields, had few crashes and survived many a mishap because of these skills.
If you do crash in a race "stay down and go fetal until the field goes by"...looking up is a quick way to get a face full of bike lol.
You can train to respond by "practicing" crashing.
When I was coaching a juniors team we would set up a very short oval in a park, on grass, using cones to mark the course. We would slowly ride the oval side by side and practice leaning into each other, how to react/respond, how to use your shoulders, elbows and head to hold a rider, how to recover when overlapping a wheel...it is possible not to crash but not easy and takes practice...We would also play demo derby by trying to knock a rider down by any means possible...pulling, pushing, hitting your brakes, t-boning, etc. this was some of the most fun we had and after several weeks it was very difficult to knock one of us down. We would then practice...one at a time...going over the handle bars bars yanking the front brake while riding...Prior to this I taught my riders how to properly land, tuck and roll using skills I learned in martial arts...we then took this skill to the bike and would practice once a week in the spring, prior to racing season.
We used old beater bikes that looked better with the scars we put on them.
My riders were some of the best riders in their fields, had few crashes and survived many a mishap because of these skills.
If you do crash in a race "stay down and go fetal until the field goes by"...looking up is a quick way to get a face full of bike lol.
07-22-09, 04:38 PM
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Just crashed a couple of weeks ago by getting caught in some tracks in the road. It pulled me down instantly. Instinctively I put my arm out, but I also turned to land more on my back because I was wearing a back pack. The turning so my back hit the ground first saved my shoulder from taking the full force of the fall (although I did still end up with a nasty rash on my shoulder), but the out-stretched hand was a bad idea. I was lucky and didn't break any bones in my hand but I did sprain three of my fingers because they bent back way too much. The fall lasted about a third of a second, but I was on the ground writhing in pain for about 3 minutes. Off in the distance I heard someone say to me "Do you want me to call an ambulance?"...I still laugh at that.
07-22-09, 04:44 PM
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I don't get how people fall over on the road so much though. I geuss I've done more mountain biking so have practise in my bike doing stupid things. I spooked a few riders in a race I did recently because my back end kept on sliding out (was very wet and I had completely the wrong tyres on), never actually lost it though.
07-22-09, 04:53 PM
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I have a friend who is a former gymnast (equivalent of a cat 2) who has done more than one endo where she got off, landed on her feet (after doing the front tuck) holding the bike with one hand, got back on and rode away while spectators were picking up their jaws off the pavement.
She made me take tumbling classes a few years ago. I don't crash as well as her, but I've noticed that there's a lot of time to think on the way down, and I generally try to stay on the bike all the way down.
07-22-09, 05:01 PM
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yes.
I have a friend who is a former gymnast (equivalent of a cat 2) who has done more than one endo where she got off, landed on her feet (after doing the front tuck) holding the bike with one hand, got back on and rode away while spectators were picking up their jaws off the pavement.
I have a friend who is a former gymnast (equivalent of a cat 2) who has done more than one endo where she got off, landed on her feet (after doing the front tuck) holding the bike with one hand, got back on and rode away while spectators were picking up their jaws off the pavement.
I've been thinking, and I think I'm gona have to try what you described. Doesn't sound too hard. Dw, I'll try and get a video of it.
Last edited by Dheorl; 07-22-09 at 05:14 PM.
07-22-09, 05:07 PM
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The risk of landing on your side, fracturing your hip, shoulder, or a rib that could easily puncture a lung is a far worse injury IMO. Wrists heel fine most times, hips do not (speaking from experience). It is even possible to ride with a broken wrist, not so for hip or shoulder in a huge cast.
You want to land on something big like your butt or your side or your back. I think that's why you see some many people recommending landing here or in the fetal position.
In the end, it's very unlikely that you can predict how you'll crash unless you practice crashing and condition your reflexes to land a certain way.
I do have a medical degree and have seen my share of fractures.
07-22-09, 06:14 PM
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I was biking across a schoolyard, thought I saw something move, looked over my shoulder. Next thing I knew I was in the air, my front wheel caught in a ditch (a GD DITCH in the middle of a schoolyard), landed on my knees and slid a bit before falling flat on my face. Still have the scars.
Good times.
Good times.
07-22-09, 06:31 PM
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07-22-09, 06:42 PM
#69
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yes.
I have a friend who is a former gymnast (equivalent of a cat 2) who has done more than one endo where she got off, landed on her feet (after doing the front tuck) holding the bike with one hand, got back on and rode away while spectators were picking up their jaws off the pavement.
She made me take tumbling classes a few years ago. I don't crash as well as her, but I've noticed that there's a lot of time to think on the way down, and I generally try to stay on the bike all the way down.
I have a friend who is a former gymnast (equivalent of a cat 2) who has done more than one endo where she got off, landed on her feet (after doing the front tuck) holding the bike with one hand, got back on and rode away while spectators were picking up their jaws off the pavement.
She made me take tumbling classes a few years ago. I don't crash as well as her, but I've noticed that there's a lot of time to think on the way down, and I generally try to stay on the bike all the way down.
I know I lose points for not holding onto the bike
But that makes me feel better. My first 3 months of karate included basic falling skills, and then my junior cycling team did a some drills as well. I'd like to think that helped me to prevent any serious injuries over the years.
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07-22-09, 07:02 PM
#70
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I took Judo for a while, learned how to tumble. One of the standard drills was to jump over classmates who were standing with only their head bent over. You had to sprint at them and jump over up to 8 or 10 guys, basically do a Superman over them and then tumble to a safe landing. Usually you ended up sitting or standing (you bleed off momentum by allowing it to do stuff like stand you up).
My instinct is to get my hands in front of my head, tuck, roll. I've gone down in all sorts of situations, high speed descent, corners, etc, and the ingrained instincts seem to work. You roll and use your legs/arms to absorb some of the impact when you come out of the roll. You either look like you're sliding into home base or, often, you end up standing as you allow your feet to dig just a touch, your inertia literally standing you up with no effort on your part.
Many of my crashes end in slides, where I instinctively end up sitting after a tumble then suddenly realize that I'm still moving really fast, sliding on the pavement. Then I tumble. This is usually on wet roads, but sometimes on dry ones too.
As far as not having time to think, I'm surprised at how slowly time moves when I fall. Or even when someone else falls. I remember a few years ago in the last turn at New Britain. A guy came around the outside, cut someone off, and basically took that second guy out. The second guy's front wheel got turned totally sideways by the front guy. Second guy's bike did a major endo, with the rider himself launched a good 4-5-6 feet off the ground (it's a downhill turn).
I was sort of looking across/up at the guy (I was maybe a wheel or two behind, I may have been on the guy's wheel) and thinking "holy *** this is going to hurt".
Then, classic. From the airborne guy's mouth I hear "You Mother fkc--"
As he gets out the "r" he slams into the ground, cuts off the rest of the "r". Guy was pretty seriously hurt, but it was extremely obvious that if he had one thing to say before he hit the ground, he wanted to let the assh*t who cut him off exactly how he felt.
cdr
My instinct is to get my hands in front of my head, tuck, roll. I've gone down in all sorts of situations, high speed descent, corners, etc, and the ingrained instincts seem to work. You roll and use your legs/arms to absorb some of the impact when you come out of the roll. You either look like you're sliding into home base or, often, you end up standing as you allow your feet to dig just a touch, your inertia literally standing you up with no effort on your part.
Many of my crashes end in slides, where I instinctively end up sitting after a tumble then suddenly realize that I'm still moving really fast, sliding on the pavement. Then I tumble. This is usually on wet roads, but sometimes on dry ones too.
As far as not having time to think, I'm surprised at how slowly time moves when I fall. Or even when someone else falls. I remember a few years ago in the last turn at New Britain. A guy came around the outside, cut someone off, and basically took that second guy out. The second guy's front wheel got turned totally sideways by the front guy. Second guy's bike did a major endo, with the rider himself launched a good 4-5-6 feet off the ground (it's a downhill turn).
I was sort of looking across/up at the guy (I was maybe a wheel or two behind, I may have been on the guy's wheel) and thinking "holy *** this is going to hurt".
Then, classic. From the airborne guy's mouth I hear "You Mother fkc--"
As he gets out the "r" he slams into the ground, cuts off the rest of the "r". Guy was pretty seriously hurt, but it was extremely obvious that if he had one thing to say before he hit the ground, he wanted to let the assh*t who cut him off exactly how he felt.
cdr
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07-22-09, 07:07 PM
#71
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yes.
I have a friend who is a former gymnast (equivalent of a cat 2) who has done more than one endo where she got off, landed on her feet (after doing the front tuck) holding the bike with one hand, got back on and rode away while spectators were picking up their jaws off the pavement.
She made me take tumbling classes a few years ago. I don't crash as well as her, but I've noticed that there's a lot of time to think on the way down, and I generally try to stay on the bike all the way down.
I have a friend who is a former gymnast (equivalent of a cat 2) who has done more than one endo where she got off, landed on her feet (after doing the front tuck) holding the bike with one hand, got back on and rode away while spectators were picking up their jaws off the pavement.
She made me take tumbling classes a few years ago. I don't crash as well as her, but I've noticed that there's a lot of time to think on the way down, and I generally try to stay on the bike all the way down.
Man... If only...
07-22-09, 07:07 PM
#72
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As a teammate went down in front of me and skidded along the asphalt and as I rapidly approached with no hope of avoiding the inevitable, my last thought before going down (via slamming my front wheel into his rib cage and fairly high speed, then going over my bars) was, 'Robin, I'm so so sorry.'
Turns out I ended up worse than him - broke a rib and thought I'd broken my wrist. Though he did strip most of the skin off one of his nipples as he slid.
But I stuck my hand out instead of rolling, and caught a shifter hood in my ribs.
Having done Aikido back in the day, I do imagine going into a front roll and coming up standing... But I've never pulled it off.
Once, while messing about on my mountain bike when younger, I tried a 'sweet jump' only to go over my bars - but landed running.
Maybe someone has that link to the Reston GP video a few weeks back when the guy goes down, slides back up on his feet, almost pulls it together, and then catches a team mate head-on?
EDIT: Here it is - starting at 1:46. Very nearly really smooth.
Turns out I ended up worse than him - broke a rib and thought I'd broken my wrist. Though he did strip most of the skin off one of his nipples as he slid.
But I stuck my hand out instead of rolling, and caught a shifter hood in my ribs.
Having done Aikido back in the day, I do imagine going into a front roll and coming up standing... But I've never pulled it off.
Once, while messing about on my mountain bike when younger, I tried a 'sweet jump' only to go over my bars - but landed running.
Maybe someone has that link to the Reston GP video a few weeks back when the guy goes down, slides back up on his feet, almost pulls it together, and then catches a team mate head-on?
EDIT: Here it is - starting at 1:46. Very nearly really smooth.
Last edited by Treefox; 07-22-09 at 07:16 PM.
07-22-09, 07:25 PM
#73
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i go fetal position (natural, can't help). I try to slide rather than rag doll. I had a wipe out at 50km/h that left me with burns rather than broken bones. I'd rather take the burns and scars over broken bones.
I wear a camelbak. I try to slide on that. I use the sides of my arms to roll onto it.
edit:
If I'm mountain biking, I tend to land doing a push-up sorta thing - that's if I can't land on my feet running! I know it's not a good way to land - that's how you break your collarbone. Sometimes you can't help these things, though, y'know? Being a feather-weight helps to preserve yourself in the event of a crash.
I wear a camelbak. I try to slide on that. I use the sides of my arms to roll onto it.
edit:
If I'm mountain biking, I tend to land doing a push-up sorta thing - that's if I can't land on my feet running! I know it's not a good way to land - that's how you break your collarbone. Sometimes you can't help these things, though, y'know? Being a feather-weight helps to preserve yourself in the event of a crash.
Last edited by Zan; 07-22-09 at 07:31 PM.
07-22-09, 07:34 PM
#74
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that video...
what a take down. looked brutal.
what a take down. looked brutal.
07-22-09, 09:13 PM
#75
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You can never tell how it will go down. If you can a slide on your hip or back would be my prefered choice.
But sometimes you go over the front. Last fast crash I was going in the low 20's when some one moved over into my front wheel. My weight was on that side so instead of trying to bounce off it (preferred) I was pushing into his tire so when mine came free it jerked sideways and washed out. I went over the right front quadrant at about a 2:00 position. It happened fast, all I remember thinking was tuck and roll. I had been doing a lot of mtb where you can practice such things
Don't know if it was luck or skill, but I landed on the back of my shoulder and rolled. It hurt, took a pedal to the top of my foot and road rash on my back, elbows and knees. But after walking around and cursing for awhile was able to ride 10 or so miles home.
I know several track riders that say ride your bike down. What they mean is keep a hold of your handlebars and stay on your bike into the ground. I guess that is to keep you from reaching out with your hands. I say go with the tuck and roll if you are going into your forward quadrant if you can. Much better than going superman and leading with the chin.
But sometimes you go over the front. Last fast crash I was going in the low 20's when some one moved over into my front wheel. My weight was on that side so instead of trying to bounce off it (preferred) I was pushing into his tire so when mine came free it jerked sideways and washed out. I went over the right front quadrant at about a 2:00 position. It happened fast, all I remember thinking was tuck and roll. I had been doing a lot of mtb where you can practice such things
Don't know if it was luck or skill, but I landed on the back of my shoulder and rolled. It hurt, took a pedal to the top of my foot and road rash on my back, elbows and knees. But after walking around and cursing for awhile was able to ride 10 or so miles home.I know several track riders that say ride your bike down. What they mean is keep a hold of your handlebars and stay on your bike into the ground. I guess that is to keep you from reaching out with your hands. I say go with the tuck and roll if you are going into your forward quadrant if you can. Much better than going superman and leading with the chin.