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To Campy, or not to Campy? What would you do?

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View Poll Results: Spend money to upgrade Calud Butler?
Yes, upgrade to Campy Veloce groupo.
21
60.00%
Yes, but mix it up a bit. Try other components.
2
5.71%
No, save the cash for future savings. Have you seen the economy?
6
17.14%
WTF?
6
17.14%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

To Campy, or not to Campy? What would you do?

Old 07-24-09, 09:08 AM
  #1  
NomadDNA
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To Campy, or not to Campy? What would you do?

I work at a bike shop, which has two consequences: 1) I get fantastic deals on great bike gear; 2) I have low relative wages, making most of that bike gear out of my budget. Nevertheless, I find myself frequently dreaming about upgrading my Claud Butler. It's an excellent frame, and has the potential to be a dream bike.

So the question I have for you is: would you make this upgrade?

Here's my current set-up:
Brand: Claud Butler
Year: c. 1984
Model: Brevet
Frame: Racing red, Reynolds 531 steel ::drool::
Crank: Sakae Super Custom (52t; 48t)
Rear derailleur: Simplex SX610
F. derailleur: Simplex
Brakes: Upgraded to Campy Veloce from Universal/Weinman
Shifting: Downtube Shimano 600 *FRICTION*

Dream upgrade:
Rear hub: Shimano 105 w/10sp cassette
Rear derailleur: Campy Veloce 10sp (yes, it exists)
Front derailleur: Campy Veloce
Crank: Campy veloce double
Shifting: Chorus ErgoPower 10sp/Double
Bottom Bracket: Campy Veloce

Grand Total Cost of Upgrade (Including re-spoking rear wheel): $465.50
Estimated retail value of bicycle: $1000.00

Here's a previous discussion on Camy Veloce gear:
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in...p/t-13540.html

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Old 07-24-09, 09:11 AM
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Doesn't sound worth it to me. That's a classic frame. Leave it as it was meant to be. And, if you don't race, you don't really need brifters or index shifting.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:14 AM
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If you would spend money to upgrade, why wouldn't you match the hub/cassette to the derailleur and shifter?

In a pinch I've ridden a shimano-spaced 9 speed wheel on my Campy 9 speed setup, and shifting was finnicky at best. I've heard plenty of other people say both with tinkering the shifting is fine, and even with lots of tinkering the shifting still isn't as good as matching. But if you're going to spend money, why not do it the way it's meant to be, rather than an in-a-pinch solution?

And yeah, I'd do it. Older road bikes with modern components are rad.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
If you would spend money to upgrade, why wouldn't you match the hub/cassette to the derailleur and shifter?
I tend to agree. I'd prefer to "keep it in the family." But here's why:
-Our providers don't offer a Campy 36 spoke rear hub, which I'd prefer to spoke with my classic campy rim
-It would cost significantly more
-I've already ordered the shimano 105

They're not the best reasons. I should look into the cost of a campy wheel....

Originally Posted by ri_us View Post
And, if you don't race, you don't really need brifters or index shifting.
True. I haven't raced yet, but I'd like to. I try to ride about 100 miles a week if I can, but have been finding the downtube shifting to be troublesome.

Last edited by NomadDNA; 07-24-09 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:26 AM
  #5  
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Save up and buy Centaur. A MUCH better group for only a few hundred more.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:37 AM
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Um.

You'll need a shiftmate for a 10 speed shimano cassette with a 10 speed campy RD. You can make it work otherwise, but it depends on how patient you are.

Nothing wrong with adding 10 speed to a classic frame. I did that last year as well. Now that frame's getting turned into a Single speed. So it goes.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:43 AM
  #7  
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If you like the frame, I say go for it. You'll have a very nice bike.

Of course you could sell the bike for $300-400, add in the $465, and with your shop discount buy a modern aluminum bike with a carbon fiber fork that would be lighter.

But if you like your frame, I don't see any reason not to do the upgrade (other than the shimano hub compatability problem.)

You do know you'll need to coldset the rear triangle.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
If you like the frame, I say go for it. You'll have a very nice bike.

Of course you could sell the bike for $300-400, add in the $465, and with your shop discount buy a modern aluminum bike with a carbon fiber fork that would be lighter.

But if you like your frame, I don't see any reason not to do the upgrade (other than the shimano hub compatability problem.)

You do know you'll need to coldset the rear triangle.
Depends. I didn't need to do it. My spacing was 126 though.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:47 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
You'll need a shiftmate for a 10 speed shimano cassette with a 10 speed campy RD. You can make it work otherwise, but it depends on how patient you are
Perhaps, but I'm not convinced.

The shiftmate ensures that the indexing ratio between the campy shifters and shimano derailleur work out to be compatible. If you have campy shifter and derailleur, the indexing between the two would be fine.

The hub shouldn't play a role: it simply holds the ten gears of the cassette; assuming you have a 10sp cassette that's compatible with the 10sp derailleur, the indexing will be just fine.
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Old 07-24-09, 09:50 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
If you like the frame, I say go for it. You'll have a very nice bike.

Of course you could sell the bike for $300-400, add in the $465, and with your shop discount buy a modern aluminum bike with a carbon fiber fork that would be lighter.

But if you like your frame, I don't see any reason not to do the upgrade (other than the shimano hub compatability problem.)

You do know you'll need to coldset the rear triangle.
I don't know about you guys, but I could never go with an aluminum bike. Way too hard on the body. Carbon? Sure. Steel? Of course. Titanium or magnesium?.....

Yeah, my frame is 127mm, and I tried popping in a 130 hub, and it fit pretty nicely. I think cold setting 3mm wouldn't be bad.
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Old 07-24-09, 10:05 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by NomadDNA View Post
I don't know about you guys, but I could never go with an aluminum bike. Way too hard on the body. Carbon? Sure. Steel? Of course. Titanium or magnesium?.....

Yeah, my frame is 127mm, and I tried popping in a 130 hub, and it fit pretty nicely. I think cold setting 3mm wouldn't be bad.
Have you ridden a CAAD9?
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Old 07-24-09, 10:14 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by NomadDNA View Post
Perhaps, but I'm not convinced.

The shiftmate ensures that the indexing ratio between the campy shifters and shimano derailleur work out to be compatible. If you have campy shifter and derailleur, the indexing between the two would be fine.

The hub shouldn't play a role: it simply holds the ten gears of the cassette; assuming you have a 10sp cassette that's compatible with the 10sp derailleur, the indexing will be just fine.
AFAIK, the shiftmate changes the distance the RD travels with each click to be compatible with the cog spacing of a cassette from different maker. Check their model 1, it supports exactly the situation you describe.
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Old 07-24-09, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kwrides View Post
Save up and buy Centaur. A MUCH better group for only a few hundred more.
Centaur and Veloce are functionally identical. Centaur has more finishing work done to it making it nicer looking and a lighter. For a budget build and not looking a weight Veloce is a very good groupset.
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Old 07-24-09, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by haimtoeg View Post
Originally Posted by NomadDNA View Post
Perhaps, but I'm not convinced.

The shiftmate ensures that the indexing ratio between the campy shifters and shimano derailleur work out to be compatible. If you have campy shifter and derailleur, the indexing between the two would be fine.

The hub shouldn't play a role: it simply holds the ten gears of the cassette; assuming you have a 10sp cassette that's compatible with the 10sp derailleur, the indexing will be just fine.
AFAIK, the shiftmate changes the distance the RD travels with each click to be compatible with the cog spacing of a cassette from different maker. Check their model 1, it supports exactly the situation you describe.
Correct.
A Shimano cassette's cogs are spaced at 3.95mm c-c, a Campy cassette's cogs are 4.12mm c-c. Over 10 shifts, thats 1.7mm difference. Not alot, but enough to screw up your shifting.
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Old 07-24-09, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by scorpio516 View Post
Correct.
A Shimano cassette's cogs are spaced at 3.95mm c-c, a Campy cassette's cogs are 4.12mm c-c. Over 10 shifts, thats 1.7mm difference. Not alot, but enough to screw up your shifting.
Thanks. Good tips, guys. I wouldn't have realized.

What about a campy cluster, campy RD, campy brifters, with a shimano hub? Wouldn't that work? Or would the cluster not fit on the shimano hub?

Last edited by NomadDNA; 07-24-09 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 07-24-09, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by NomadDNA View Post
I don't know about you guys, but I could never go with an aluminum bike. Way too hard on the body. Carbon? Sure. Steel? Of course. Titanium or magnesium?.....

Yeah, my frame is 127mm, and I tried popping in a 130 hub, and it fit pretty nicely. I think cold setting 3mm wouldn't be bad.
Aluminium frames are not hard on the body. Over inflating your tires is.
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Old 07-24-09, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by NomadDNA View Post
I don't know about you guys, but I could never go with an aluminum bike. Way too hard on the body. Carbon? Sure. Steel? Of course. Titanium or magnesium?.....
I think you'd be pleasantly surprised if you put your current wheels/tires on a "stiff" aluminum bike (not a base level frame, a bit above it) and took it for a spin. Tires and wheels affect ride feel a lot. So do saddle, bars, and stem.

Obviously frame and fork too, but I've ridden really noodly Ti bikes that made my hands go numb, and I've ridden "stiff" AL frames for 130+ miles at a time with no unexpected comfort problems (stiff legs, tired, but otherwise okay).

Design > Material, at least as far as how it affects you. The "hot" 'cross frames a while ago were skinny tubed aluminum frames, too noodly for most riders on the road, but nice and comfy for 'cross.

If you go Campy, use Shimano/SRAM cassettes, however you do that (shiftmate etc). The cost of Campy cassettes is crazy. I still want to experiment with a SRAM rear der, Campy 10s brifters, and Shimano/SRAM rear cassette/hub, a la Leonard Zinn.

cdr
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Old 07-24-09, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by clausen View Post
Aluminium frames are not hard on the body. Over inflating your tires is.
Aside from starting with a silly question, this thread is pertinent:
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in...p/t-24598.html
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Old 07-24-09, 10:39 AM
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Do the upgrade. It's a classic bike and you will like the brifters, which means you ride more, which is a good thing.
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Old 07-24-09, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by scorpio516 View Post
Correct.
A Shimano cassette's cogs are spaced at 3.95mm c-c, a Campy cassette's cogs are 4.12mm c-c. Over 10 shifts, thats 1.7mm difference. Not alot, but enough to screw up your shifting.
Actually, if you set your RD at one the center cogs, the difference will be 0.68mm at one end and 0.85mm at the other since there are only 9 gaps in a 10 speed cassette.

Last edited by haimtoeg; 07-24-09 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 07-24-09, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by clausen View Post
Centaur and Veloce are functionally identical. Centaur has more finishing work done to it making it nicer looking and a lighter. For a budget build and not looking a weight Veloce is a very good groupset.


I agree that they are close in function, but Centaur used to be considerably lighter. Also, doesn't Centaur go through further hardening to last longer? It did years ago, but it's been a while since I researched Campag beyond Record.
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Old 07-24-09, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by clausen View Post
Centaur and Veloce are functionally identical. Centaur has more finishing work done to it making it nicer looking and a lighter. For a budget build and not looking a weight Veloce is a very good groupset.
Incorrect. Chain ring and cassette quality are two places that Veloce and Centaur differ, at least they did when I was buying my last set. I think there was some part differences in the shifters as well, but those were probably fairly minor. After doing the research, I found it to be worth it to spend the extra for Centaur.

Originally Posted by scorpio516 View Post
Correct.
A Shimano cassette's cogs are spaced at 3.95mm c-c, a Campy cassette's cogs are 4.12mm c-c. Over 10 shifts, thats 1.7mm difference. Not alot, but enough to screw up your shifting.
Originally Posted by NomadDNA View Post
Thanks. Good tips, guys. I wouldn't have realized.

What about a campy cluster, campy RD, campy brifters, with a shimano hub? Wouldn't that work? Or would the cluster not fit on the shimano hub?
I believe what he needs is an American Classic Conversion Cassette, or something of the same effect. It is a Campagnolo spaced cassette, but with a Shimano spline pattern.

I've upgraded two 531c bikes (orginally 127mm spacing) to Campagnolo 10sp groups. Both bikes run great, ride great, and usually get picked over my carbon Fuji on club rides if the weather is good.
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Old 07-24-09, 11:29 AM
  #23  
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I've been thinking of doing the same thing with my steel bike.
I've decided to just build some new wheels to give it a fresh look (and the hubs are dying).
Maybe once I finish paying for my car I'll upgrade to a campy ergo setup.
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Old 07-24-09, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by NomadDNA View Post
Aside from starting with a silly question, this thread is pertinent:
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in...p/t-24598.html
What's pertinent? I'm not going to read a 3 page, 3 year old AL VS Steel thread.

The biggest difference in ride between my AL bike and Steel bike (which is my main bike) is the tires. I've put 4 +3 hour rides on my Al bike this month. It does not have a hard ride.
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Old 07-24-09, 11:43 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by cuda2k View Post
Incorrect. Chain ring and cassette quality are two places that Veloce and Centaur differ, at least they did when I was buying my last set. I think there was some part differences in the shifters as well, but those were probably fairly minor. After doing the research, I found it to be worth it to spend the extra for Centaur.

Not any more. They are now the same, but Centaur comes with a lockring.



I believe what he needs is an American Classic Conversion Cassette, or something of the same effect. It is a Campagnolo spaced cassette, but with a Shimano spline pattern.

Beat me to it. I've got one on a Shimano hub w/ Campy drivetrain ... works great

I've upgraded two 531c bikes (orginally 127mm spacing) to Campagnolo 10sp groups. Both bikes run great, ride great, and usually get picked over my carbon Fuji on club rides if the weather is good.

I just finished converting my 1982 steel bike to campy 10 .... glad to be rid of friction
The 2009 Centaur shifters are like butter. I got Veloce shifters for my daughter's bike, but haven't tried them yet. They should be butter too because the internals are the same.
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