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botto's just cranky cause he can't paint like this little kid.
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Terry Smith sounds like a very important person who has been held up for a minute or so on more than one occasion by those very annoying cyclists nervey enough to have ended up in front of her while she was on her way to a very important place to annoy people with her very important attitude.
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I think Tadawdy makes the best point here. It is the responsibility of everyone using the road to do so in a manner hat does not endanger the lives of others. That being said I wish some people would give a little more then an inch or two when flying past me on a narrow road. I understand if there is oncoming traffic, but do you need to be doing 45mph in a 25mph zone? On the other hand, when I'm driving, I have seen large group rides with the pack 4 wide. It stands to reason that when riding on narrow public roads w/ no shoulder your group may be better in a single file. Share the road people.
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Hmm. Waukesha is not too far from where I live.
I HAVE seen guys ride side by side completely occupying the lane with 3-4 cars stacked up behind. I can imagine drivers would find that frustrating. We've all had drivers put us in danger. My poiont being that there's room for all of us as long as both groups cooperate. Yeah, I know. Mr. Sunshine here. |
Originally Posted by tntyz
(Post 9391343)
Hmm. Waukesha is not too far from where I live.
I HAVE seen guys ride side by side completely occupying the lane with 3-4 cars stacked up behind. I can imagine drivers would find that frustrating. We've all had drivers put us in danger. My poiont being that there's room for all of us as long as both groups cooperate. Yeah, I know. Mr. Sunshine here. On our group ride, I was amazed at how many people, once part of a group, let the courtesy fly out the window. Side by side riding on narrow curving roads, riding on sidewalks, and other stuff that made me embarrassed. The experienced ride guys kept reminding people to single file and show courtesy to pedestrians but it was a losing cause. In VT, we have a lot of bikes cruising the back roads for the scenery. These roads many times have narrow shoulders and are very winding, all the while posted as 50 mph. Nothing is more scary than to come around a corner and find bikes 3 wide going 15 mph. Dangerous and stupid. Then to stay 3 wide knowing that because of the curves, you must go in the other lane on a curve or wait for a mile or so to get a spot to pass is just plain rude and arrogant on the bikers part. Sins of the few affect the many. Cars have to respect the bike guys as they have rights on the road. Give them some space and show some patience. Bike guys have to realize that rights on the road shouldn't turn into an act of defiance. I have the right to block the road in my car at 20 mph but common courtesy tells me not too. On my bike, I have my place on the road. I give a wave or a thank you to cars that show me some space or courtesy because they just might take a kindlier view to the next bike guy and cut him some slack. If I have to hit a sidewalk and a pedestrian moves or waves me through, I always give a "thank you". Changing attitudes is more important than being right. A lot of dead people are in the right. But hey, I'm to new to cycling, what do I know?:) |
I have on many occasions seen other vehicles forced to cross the center line... Why is it that so many people seem to ignore the other obvious choice: slow down and wait until it's safe to pass. |
Just like everywhere else, there are ignorant and stupid bicyclists as well. I've been in my car and had a woman riding in the traffic lane, forcing cars t slow and go around her (crossing the yellow line) when sh had a perfectly good bike lane right next to her.
I've also been on my bike and had some old %#$@ make a right turn in front of me because either A. he was too old to see me, or B. He was so old he wanted to be sure he made that turn before he died. Personally I think these groups should at least try to ride as single file as they can. In florida they have a law that any new road, or anytime a road is modified/improved it has to include a bike lane. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 9391080)
botto, the new BF Chaperone.
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Originally Posted by Johnny Colnago
(Post 9390906)
Better yet you can contact them directly:
editing out contact as it seems to be in error Have to wonder what athletics this guys is promoting with an attitude like that! lol BTW this info is freely available to anyone who can google Terry Smith Waukesha and published on the Waukesha Catholic Athletic Board's website. |
1) Pass only when it is safe to do so.
2) Cyclists in large packs should be considerate of the drivers around them when on narrow 2-lane roads. Single-up, split the group, etc to allow for the smooth and safe passing of cars. 3) If it's unsafe to allow cars to pass in a stretch of road, it is however wise for the cyclists to take the entire lane to ensure that a driver doesn't take it upon themselves to make the decision that it "may" be safe to "try" to pass. 4) There are and will always be *******s on both sides of the car-bike interaction. And they are the ones that the other side will remember far more than the considerate individuals. The best we can do is try not to be one of the *******s ourselves and keep the rides we participate in as safe and considerate as possible. |
I admit, before I started biking I was in a similar mindset to this Terry person. I used to get annoyed driving around the DC suburbs behind bikers on Saturday mornings when all I wanted to do was get from point A to point B. Now that I'm into cycling, I understand the laws a lot better and I dont get impatient anymore.
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I'm totally with Terry.
People who hold up traffic should not be allowed on the roads. Once we get those damn slow moving RV's and trucks that hold traffic up for miles and miles as well as anyone inconsiderate enough to bring everyone to a complete stop so they can turn left across a line of traffic or enter a parking space, things will be much better. And what the eff is wrong with people who think they can leave their cars in the right lane for hours so no one else can drive through? Parking space, my butt. |
Why don't we ride on paths? Perfect example last night with my daughter.
We were riding on a MUP at a reasonable speed...turn a tight corner, BOOM! Guy and his kid walking four dogs, with f-ing 25' leashes...they on the right side of the path, the dogs on the left. In order not to hit the leashes my daughter had to go off the path and nearly bought a tree. F-er didn't even have the courtesy to say a damned thing even though she went off the path right in full sight of this idiot, clearly due to his failure to control his animals and his/their use of the path. I didn't know what to say...so I refrained (hard for me) and didn't say anything, although I really wanted to have the guys face meet Mr. Knuckles. So what would this Terry Smith idiot have us do?...Hell, let's just outlaw bicycles because they're so dangerous. |
I used to read the opinion page in my local newspaper back when I lived in a city that had one. I read so many letters that made me so mad, and I couldn't see any reason for the paper to print them except these inflammatory articles probably sold papers. After all, I always went straight for that section of the paper.
There are idiots like Terry Smith everywhere, and it's a shame that newspapers print their idiot letters, but they will continue. Probably most people in Wisconsin who read this could tell he/she is an ass, just like we can. Apart from the people who agree with Terry already. :-/ |
Wow, that is one socially conservative place. Respect the authority of the police, bicyclists should stay off the roads, exclude abortions. I can't wait to live somewhere like that.
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Originally Posted by Hummeth
(Post 9390440)
ROADS
Bicyclists are not without responsibility The latest death of a bike rider on a rural road should serve to remind us that many roads are not adequately designed to accommodate "professional" bicyclists. I have on many occasions seen other vehicles forced to cross the center line in front of me in order to avoid rows of spandex-clad road hogs who are seemingly oblivious to the fact that they not only are endangering their own lives but the lives of others. Are there not plenty of legitimate bike trails or even gymnasium stationary bikes that these people could use to advance their fitness regimes? What gives these people the right to alter traffic so they may indulge their own personal agendas? Do they not share some responsibility for the untimely death of a counterpart? Move over and consider staying off roads that were never meant for you in the first place. In this way, future tragedies can be prevented. Terry Smith Waukesha Drivers are not without responsibility The latest death of a bike rider on a rural road should serve to remind us that many roads are not adequately designed to accommodate "professional" bicyclists. Thus as drivers we need to increase our level of responsibility in these areas. I have on many occasions seen other vehicles forced to cross the center line in front of me in order to avoid rows of cyclists who are seemingly more than aware of the fact that they are endangering their own lives. It seems in this case the wielder of the more powerful vehicle should practice the greater responsibility to avoid harm. You can't ask cyclists to use legitimate bike trails or even gymnasium stationary bikes to advance their fitness regimes. That's like asking swimmers to practice in their bathtubs. The law gives these people the right to alter traffic so they may indulge their own personal agendas. They feel very strongly for the untimely death of a counterpart caused by reckless, often distracted drivers. Most cyclists display courtesy for drivers by moving over and riding on the edge of the road. Many also consider staying off roads that are too dangerous to ride on anyway. Through shared responsibility and courtesy by both motorists and cyclists, future tragedies can be prevented. - |
Originally Posted by Johnny Colnago
(Post 9390906)
Better yet you can contact them directly:
deleting all references to the email Have to wonder what athletics this guys is promoting with an attitude like that! lol BTW this info is freely available to anyone who can google Terry Smith Waukesha and published on the Waukesha Catholic Athletic Board's website. Moderator... Please remove their contact information from the post. From: Terry Smith Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:51 AM To: 'Randy Morgan' Subject: RE: In response to your letter to the paper. Hello Randy, I’ve been replying to these e-mails this morning with a very curt statement “The author of this article wasn’t me.” But you’ve put sent me a respectful e-mail of honest debate. And this is my lunch hour and I have a little more time, so: This wasn’t me. I am a casual bike rider myself, and love to bike the Drumlin Trail when I can. Can I ask, Where did you get my e-mail? I have to imagine that there is more than (1) Terry Smith in Waukesha and to reiterate, This wasn’t me. I’ve got more important things to do than to write the Journal. I don’t even read the Journal. On the bright side, you were the first e-mail that I received this morning that was in any way coherent and presented any kind of thoughtful argument. Please let me know the source of where you got my e-mail. This started out this morning as a humorous miscommunication but it’s starting to get a little scary. Regards, Terry Smith |
Originally Posted by Johnny Colnago
(Post 9390906)
Better yet you can contact them directly:
Have to wonder what athletics this guys is promoting with an attitude like that! lol BTW this info is freely available to anyone who can google Terry Smith Waukesha and published on the Waukesha Catholic Athletic Board's website. The same thing happened when that psycho Beverley Hills doctor deliberately braked in front of a cyclist causing the guy to crash through his rear window and get a lacerated neck. Another doctor with the same name started getting reams of abusive and threatening messages. |
Thank you Fixitman for getting this straight. I've deleted the contact info and, I think, all quotes of it. Let us know if I missed anything, slamming the wrong guy is counter-productive.
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The worst is when I get passed and then they slam on the brakes and turn right. I get really temped to just plow into their passenger door..
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Originally Posted by cuda2k
(Post 9392057)
4) There are and will always be *******s on both sides of the car-bike interaction. And they are the ones that the other side will remember far more than the considerate individuals. The best we can do is try not to be one of the *******s ourselves and keep the rides we participate in as safe and considerate as possible.
One time, back in CT a decade ago, three cyclists stopped for a chat with their bicycles forming a triangle across the double yellows. It was all I could do to not purposefully mow them all down, and they had the gall to be angry when I drove past. F'em. |
What a jerk.
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Another reason to dislike trails. The motorists feel *they've* paid for them for the sole purpose of getting cyclists off the roads.
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Originally Posted by harpoonalt
(Post 9391490)
Being fairly new to cycling and just having completed a group charity ride, there are 2 sides to the story. Common courtesy should prevail whether in a car or on a bike. In a car I give a wide berth to cyclists and joggers. Many times I get a wave, the same I try to do when I receive the same courtesy.
On our group ride, I was amazed at how many people, once part of a group, let the courtesy fly out the window. Side by side riding on narrow curving roads, riding on sidewalks, and other stuff that made me embarrassed. The experienced ride guys kept reminding people to single file and show courtesy to pedestrians but it was a losing cause. In VT, we have a lot of bikes cruising the back roads for the scenery. These roads many times have narrow shoulders and are very winding, all the while posted as 50 mph. Nothing is more scary than to come around a corner and find bikes 3 wide going 15 mph. Dangerous and stupid. Then to stay 3 wide knowing that because of the curves, you must go in the other lane on a curve or wait for a mile or so to get a spot to pass is just plain rude and arrogant on the bikers part. Sins of the few affect the many. Cars have to respect the bike guys as they have rights on the road. Give them some space and show some patience. Bike guys have to realize that rights on the road shouldn't turn into an act of defiance. I have the right to block the road in my car at 20 mph but common courtesy tells me not too. On my bike, I have my place on the road. I give a wave or a thank you to cars that show me some space or courtesy because they just might take a kindlier view to the next bike guy and cut him some slack. If I have to hit a sidewalk and a pedestrian moves or waves me through, I always give a "thank you". Changing attitudes is more important than being right. A lot of dead people are in the right. But hey, I'm to new to cycling, what do I know?:) There are other things that move slow that aren't bicycles. Most rural roads are in existence so farms can operate. That means there are other slow moving vehicles on the road, you know, like tractors and large trucks and stuff. Also, cars and trucks pull in and out of hidden driveways on these roads. Just because the speed limit is 50mph doesn't mean you round every corner and blind hill at 50 mph! What do you know... indeed... The good thing is most people know this. That's why it's not really a problem out on rural roads with groups of cyclists. It's only the very occasional person who thinks they have to keep the gas down and are forced to cross the centerline as an emergency maneuver rounding a blind corner and coming up on a slow moving vehicle or cyclist who cause some problems. |
Originally Posted by tadawdy
(Post 9390854)
Of course people think like this. You are going to make Timmy and Jenny 5 min late to soccer practice with your "unnecessary" use of the road, because he/she (sounds like a woman, but Terry is an androgynous name) was already running late but usually speeds to make up for that time. People act like they're in "Speed," and if they go under the speed limit their car will blow up or something.
So, write your own letters in response if you care so much. Use their own avenues to try to undo what they've done. Here's mine: This is in response to Terry Smith's letter "Roads: Bicyclists Are Not Without Responsibility." While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of the title, as any pilot of a vehicle would, the anti-cyclist bend of the piece demonstrates no more insight than the typical, ignorant attitude toward other users of the road. Smith asks, "What gives these people the right to alter traffic so they may indulge their own personal agendas?" What gives you the right to use the road, which adds to traffic and decreases efficiency, for your own personal reasons? Does it matter why one is using the public thoroughfares? Since pedestrians inconvenience you, should walking across roadways be prohibited? It can be forcefully argued that most miles driven are not necessary for the general good of society, and are, in fact, detrimental. Ignoring the fact that it is substantially more efficient by nearly any metric, my daily commute and other travel by bicycle is of equal importance to yours. I have to go to work and the store, too; I just choose to do it all without paying for gas, auto insurance, or parking. It is people like these who propagate hatred toward people who choose alternative lifestyles. Yes, cyclists should stop at stop signs. So should motorists. Cyclists should properly yield the right-of-way, and signal. So should motorists. In the end, we do both have responsibilities, and we both have equal rights on the roads. Motorists do not own the roads, and have the added responsibility of not killing anyone else who may be using them. T. Adam Dawdy That is pure awesomeness, T. Adam Dawdy. Well said. |
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