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190mm - 195mm cranks

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190mm - 195mm cranks

Old 09-24-21, 10:37 AM
  #101  
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All these conclusions, based on practically zero personal findings and experiences. Only something I read in "so and so link..."


I have good experience with crank arms between 165-175mm (19-20.5% of my inseam). My current e-bike which I use extensively uses 170mm crank arms. Changing to the rockbro flat platform pedals helped tremendously with my cadence and even some with power output. I would prefer to stick with 20.6% if possible at a minimum, but 19.5% is manageable. Just not any lower. The main downside in the specific case with me e bike and its smooth bottom bracket is the reduction in gear inches. It sort of confines you to a specific cadence speed and requires you to shift more often. I had an otherwise awful experience using old standard sqaure taper bottom brackets and 165-175mm crank arms on my old bikes. It was very hard on my knee. I was forced to stop biking for two months to heal.
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Old 09-24-21, 12:53 PM
  #102  
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I just don't see how this could be a one size fits all type of thing. Most certainly isn't!

Next thing i hear is someone claiming that 21% of your inseam for a crank length whether its for someone 5'6 or 6'3 is the same thing , based on what you've read from the internet?

May as well all start riding smalls and mediums now. Good god
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Old 09-24-21, 02:25 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
All these conclusions, based on practically zero personal findings and experiences. Only something I read in "so and so link..."


I have good experience ....
And they said irony was dead!

Last edited by shelbyfv; 09-24-21 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 09-24-21, 02:45 PM
  #104  
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Well, what's the evidence that whatever magic percentage is actually the right percentage? There really isn't any. There is this vague notion that larger riders need slightly bigger cranks, but nothing concrete.

I went to 170 for comfort and slightly more aero position reasons on my bikes, but when I sit on a bike with 172.5mm or 175mm cranks because it is what's on the turbo at the moment and changing for a training session is a waste of time (I just drop the saddle height to what is approximately right for me and put it back up when I'm done), it doesn't make any difference to actual power or on perceived exertion doing it.
​​​​​
I mean, if I could squeeze out and extra watt or two I'd be all over it, but :meh:
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Old 09-24-21, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
I dont think arm length makes as huge of a difference as I may have initially wagered.
Whaaaat? Nah, that can't be correct since you have claimed you are an expert at frame geometry and bike fit.

It's almost as if you have had little to no idea about what youve claimed over the last however many months.
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Old 09-24-21, 08:28 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
All these conclusions, based on practically zero personal findings and experiences. Only something I read in "so and so link..."
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Old 09-24-21, 11:58 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Whaaaat? Nah, that can't be correct since you have claimed you are an expert at frame geometry and bike fit.

It's almost as if you have had little to no idea about what youve claimed over the last however many months.
Maybe... just overly passionate?

Im just being perfectly honest with my findings. I've spent quite a bit of time messing around and changing parts.

I really would like for you guys commenting and adding absolutely nothing useful in particular 85% of the time to at least try to do the same.

Anecdotal or not, better than nothing - or even worse, attitude and prejudice
.
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Old 09-25-21, 04:33 PM
  #108  
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Reading this whole thread again, as I couldn't remember what I'd posted, it occurred to me that threads like this attract posts from folks who are, well, unusual. I mean, most folks just ride their bikes and don't worry about their crank length. During my whole riding life, I think I've talked to one person who was interested in getting a set of different length cranks. He didn't, though. I've been in the "normal folks" bag as far as JRA goes. That said, here are a couple of photos of my wife and I on our tandem. Notice anything unusual?




In both photos my crank length ratio is 22.6% and my wife's is 24%. The first photo is us in winter trim, my wife on bullhorns, me on my clip-ons. That's a slammed -17° stem. In the second photo my wife is on her clip-ons using s setup I built. We rode just fine. You can see that our thigh angles are almost the same. I could get lower by using a -40° stem, but there's really no need. This bike already has the best power/drag ratio one is likely to see. Too bad there's not more power!

Since these photos were taken, I've replaced her crankset with a set which are 22% of inseam. We're still well above Zinn's upper limit. We find that we climbed better when my wife had the 24% cranks, but they did work her leg muscles through too great a range of motion. So the shorter cranks are more comfortable for her, but we're slower. We did a 154 mile 9500' ride with the longer cranks, no problems other than the usual pain. Our team age then was only 134.
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Old 09-25-21, 07:17 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
I find this summary as good as any on crank length:-

https://bikedynamics.co.uk/FitGuidecranks.htm

There are very few downsides to shorter cranks, but plenty of potential issues going too long. I asked a very experienced fitter recently and he was strongly advocating shorter cranks based on his own experience with customers and recent research. I'm 184 cm tall with an inseam of 88 cm, so most bikes I have come with 175 mm cranks as standard. The fitter I spoke to recommended dropping down to 170 mm cranks for a new build.
Yeah, I’ve ridden 170s since the 70s and my PBH is about 93cm. I tried the 175s that came on the RockHopper for a while and they seemed harder on my knees. Switched back to 170 and that is plenty.

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Old 09-26-21, 04:41 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Maybe... just overly passionate?

Im just being perfectly honest with my findings. I've spent quite a bit of time messing around and changing parts.

I really would like for you guys commenting and adding absolutely nothing useful in particular 85% of the time to at least try to do the same.

Anecdotal or not, better than nothing - or even worse, attitude and prejudice
.
The way I approach this kind of thing is to research what professionals have found through experience and studies. Then you can make an informed decision for yourself and then make changes if you are not happy with the result.

"Messing around" changing crank length on your bike is not actually very practical and quickly gets expensive. Although if I had a Wahoo Kickr bike it would be quite easy to test for myself as it has multiple pedal positions from 165-175 mm.
Luckily for me I have fairly long legs, so "standard" length cranks (which usually means 175 mm for my size L bikes) don't cause any issues and I have no motivation to try longer non-standard cranks. Nothing I've read suggests they would be better in any way.
Most things I've read and discussion with a trusted pro fitter suggest trying shorter cranks if anything. I do happen to have a home trainer bike with 165 mm cranks and that feels fine to me. It has an accurate power meter and my FTP measured on that bike correlates with what I measure on my road bike mounted on a direct drive trainer. So I'm fairly confident that I could run any crank length between 165-175 without losing significant power.
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Old 09-26-21, 06:51 AM
  #111  
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^^^This. For folks who imagine they are somehow unique and need non-standard cranks, power measurement is a requirement. Otherwise you are subjectively noodling around, blowing smoke, navel gazing, whatever. Find a fitter who utilizes power measurement and get the facts. Probably no more expensive than a set of cranks and you won't have to obsess about it any longer.
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Old 09-26-21, 07:43 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
The way I approach this kind of thing is to research what professionals have found through experience and studies. Then you can make an informed decision for yourself and then make changes if you are not happy with the result.

"Messing around" changing crank length on your bike is not actually very practical and quickly gets expensive. Although if I had a Wahoo Kickr bike it would be quite easy to test for myself as it has multiple pedal positions from 165-175 mm.
Luckily for me I have fairly long legs, so "standard" length cranks (which usually means 175 mm for my size L bikes) don't cause any issues and I have no motivation to try longer non-standard cranks. Nothing I've read suggests they would be better in any way.
Most things I've read and discussion with a trusted pro fitter suggest trying shorter cranks if anything. I do happen to have a home trainer bike with 165 mm cranks and that feels fine to me. It has an accurate power meter and my FTP measured on that bike correlates with what I measure on my road bike mounted on a direct drive trainer. So I'm fairly confident that I could run any crank length between 165-175 without losing significant power.
Power output, like someone else mentioned is a subjective measurement. Longer crank arms (ie. Too long) doesn't necessarily mean more power output because it is more difficult to spin them past a certain speed.

If 175mm is fine for your legs, which I'm sure it is, I doubt you have any problems. I know a Taiwanese forging factory which sells a complete crankset with bottom bracket for $90 USD in any size... by all means, it was worth the experimentation for me.

I took my Felt (fitted with 185mm) crank arms out for a second ride yesterday.. and well... out of the two main bikes I used, ill go for 185mm over 170mm every single time. I actually find biking much more enjoyable and natural as far as spinning is concerned.

with the 190mm, even an extra 5mm difference and literally just 1mm too long for my inseam caused a lumpy spin and a strange dead zone in my cadence.
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Old 09-26-21, 08:06 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Power output, like someone else mentioned is a subjective measurement. Longer crank arms (ie. Too long) doesn't necessarily mean more power output because it is more difficult to spin them past a certain speed.

If 175mm is fine for your legs, which I'm sure it is, I doubt you have any problems. I know a Taiwanese forging factory which sells a complete crankset with bottom bracket for $90 USD in any size... by all means, it was worth the experimentation for me.

I took my Felt (fitted with 185mm) crank arms out for a second ride yesterday.. and well... out of the two main bikes I used, ill go for 185mm over 170mm every single time. I actually find biking much more enjoyable and natural as far as spinning is concerned.

with the 190mm, even an extra 5mm difference and literally just 1mm too long for my inseam caused a lumpy spin and a strange dead zone in my cadence.
Well power output is pretty objective when using a power meter.

But that aside I see no reason to experiment with longer cranks. If there was some credible research suggesting longer cranks might be better or if my very experienced fitter was recommending them for a particular reason, then I would be more inclined to try. But based on all I've read and heard I'm far more inclined to experiment with shorter cranks, if anything. But not to the point where I would swap out cranks on my current bikes as I don't have any particular issue to resolve. But I am contemplating fitting 170 mm cranks on my next road bike build. Just to see if there are any benefits for endurance riding. I'm pretty sure it won't be a problem or any major revelation for me.
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Old 09-26-21, 08:06 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Power output, like someone else mentioned is a subjective measurement.
I'm sure the people at Quarq would be interested in your research. Have you tried the people over at Rotor?

Longer crank arms (ie. Too long) doesn't necessarily mean more power output because it is more difficult to spin them past a certain speed.

If 175mm is fine for your legs, which I'm sure it is, I doubt you have any problems. I know a Taiwanese forging factory which sells a complete crankset with bottom bracket for $90 USD in any size... by all means, it was worth the experimentation for me.

I took my Felt (fitted with 185mm) crank arms out for a second ride yesterday.. and well... out of the two main bikes I used, ill go for 185mm over 170mm every single time. I actually find biking much more enjoyable and natural as far as spinning is concerned.

with the 190mm, even an extra 5mm difference and literally just 1mm too long for my inseam caused a lumpy spin and a strange dead zone in my cadence.
So, crank arms that were too long resulted in a dead spot in your pedal stroke, lumpy cadence, & injury, huh?

Well, I'm glad you finally started to realize that we here aren't a bunch of uneducated parrots with no real world derived experiences or emperical knowledge of some 203 years since the velocipedes invention. It takes courage to admit you were wrong, or that everyone else knew first. I actually respect you for that.

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Old 09-26-21, 08:07 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Power output, like someone else mentioned is a subjective measurement.
No surprise, this assertion is about as wrong as it could be.
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Old 09-26-21, 08:14 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
No surprise, this assertion is about as wrong as it could be.
When the batteries powering my camping headlamp are running out I simply feel they aren’t and the light suddenly gets brighter again. Doesn’t everyone?
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Old 09-26-21, 10:11 AM
  #117  
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What's the Taiwan forging factory? I would be interested in a quality crankset for $90.
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Old 09-26-21, 11:58 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
That being said, I think breathing issues are a much bigger concern for those of us who have belly fat. I've noticed that as I've gotten fatter, my belly impinges on my legs (and thus prevents me from breathing) well before my hip joints run out of mobility. My assumption was that people who are serious enough about TTs would get rid of belly fat before competitions but maybe that isn't a good assumption lol.

Anyway. That's pretty much all I have to say on this subject
Not happy to admit this affects my ability to get aero.
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Old 09-26-21, 12:37 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I'm amazed this dummy actually survived for 64 years! That has to be the most dumb thing I've seen in a while (and I've seen some really dumb things!)
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