reef58

The guy asked a legitimate question, and you guys are acting like a bunch of 3 year olds. I will go out on a limb. I try not to buy anything made from China if I can help it. I don't obsess over it. I was looking at an entry level Specialized MTB, right on the frame made in China. No entry level Specialized for me.

I try to support Americam manufacturers "if" I can. I bought a Makita miter saw it is made in Georgia. I understand the global economy, and how nothing is 100% USA made anymore, but I try. There is nothing wrong with that.

Any wood workers here? Try and find a table saw made in the US. I did and could not. I ended up with a $2000 table saw made in China and the top was .020 from being flat. 20/1000 is a lot by the way. I went back to where I bought the saw and checked the display, and it had a top out of flat. How hard is it to make a flat cast iron deck. I don't think the Chinese have nailed that yet. The replacement top was also out of flat. Luckily I have machine shop experience.

I choose not to go downhill at 30 plus MPH on a frame made with the same tech as the table saw. My choice. Don't care if you do.

I could go on and on, but I look forward to the mocking.

Richard

thegunner

hell... taipei living standards far exceed those in NYC on average. whoever still believes that taiwan is a third world country or likewise is sadly mistaken. they got water dispensers that talk to you and toilets that have prettier light shows than seaworld (true story).

and to the post above... china != taiwan

Psimet2001 

I don't have issues with people who don't want to buy Chinese products because of China's politics, but I too take offense at grouping Taiwan in this collection of less desirable countries of origin.

Having lived there during my youth I respect the culture and the hard working people of that country.

Grouping Japan in there just demonstrates sheer ignorance IMHO.

reef58

BTW made in Japan is a much different animal than made in China.

Richard

coasting 

taiwanese people who come to uk are shocked and whinge like mad about how backward uk is compared to their home country. and so do those from developed parts of mainland china. ever looked at property prices in taipei or shanghai? if you can't afford to live in NYC, you won't be able to afford those citites too.

BCAC

Yeah, I noticed that too. Dont know about the op, but many folks like to buy from first world countries to support first would social structures.

Personally, I support most Asian countries, except China. I don't consider Taiwan to be part of the China regime and I'll buy branded stuff made there.

Matt2.8NJ

I am still stunned that people still lump Taiwan in with the PRC. Doesn't anyone pay attention what's going on in the world?

coasting 

ignorant bumpkins

Psimet2001 

Table saws aren't carbon fiber bikes.

I've had to hold 3 tenths of runout across 3 ft cast iron flywheels. You can get a flat us made table saw. He'll I'll make it for you. Here's a hint though....it's going to cost more than$2k

EDIT: for those that don't know - 3 tenths = 0.0003". In machining in imperial units we talk of "thou" or thousandths of an inch (0.001)

thegunner

my respect for you just grew exponentially haha (because respect over the internet is serious business)

the housing market in taipei has gone absolutely nuts this past year, what could buy you a ridiculously spacious apartment on the UWS will most likely buy you a 1 bedroom apartment in the poorer area of the metro district now. anything near city hall or on a major road starts at around 1 mil. USD. and to think i used to want to move here ha, in my dreams.

tuxbailey

They are very nice... except I have always been hungry after their 10 course tasting menu. I wish the portions were bigger

coasting 

just save up your pennies buying those cheap terrible taiwanese bikes and keep oppressing those slave labourers. you might be able to afford to live their one day and if you can't you can always slum it in america or come to london.

thegunner

that's the plan

Cyclist0383

Then you shouldn't buy American because the social structures are far inferior to any other developed Western country.....

coasting 

hmmmm taiwan has a highly successful UHC scheme. yet they can still produce high quality and cheap goods. wonder why american bikes are so expensive.

Bob Dopolina 

That's why I live in the south.

Pricing in Taipei is way over the top. People pay more for a parking space every month than I pay for a mortgage (well almost).

coasting 

bob dopolina is an evil oppressor of the taiwanese people.

Psimet2001 

"Club cut" I take it

reef58

Couple of things the MTB I was looking at was not made out of carbon fiber. It is welded aluminum. I am going to assume they use a jig to weld the frame up. Hopefully the jig isn't made in China! Or at the least they did a better job on it than they did on the three table saw tops I saw. I also hope their welder is highly trained. You can screw up an aluminum frame for sure.

Since you have machining experience have you used any of the Chinese measuring tools and compared them to a reference block? I have the results are scary if you are looking for high precision.

Have you critically viewed the final figure on Chinese precision optics? I have they are rough as a cob, but they manage to get the figure fairly close.

My concern is Chinese manufacturing tolerances are out of spec for my taste. I am not sure if this point if they are incapable of getting things closer, or don't care.

Japan is different. Mitutoya(sp) Vixen, Canon, & Takahashi is very nice stuff. I think they even make the Televue stuff.

I talked with a rep at Powermatic and he said, and I have not searched this, EPA standards have gotten to the point where they cannot afford to make anything out of cast iron in the US. They cannot get the pollution levels down to spec without spending a boat load of $$$.

As far as table saws, jointers, ect I am going to retro / restore route.

Richard

rollin

I'm in Taipei this week and I'm paying more for my hotel room than I pay monthly for my UK mortgage (well almost)

Bob Dopolina 

If there's any oppressing being done it's being done by my Taiwanese wife on me!








...no, she doesn't read this forum...

BCAC

I'm not a native born American. I came here as an adult and became a citizen this year. It's a fact the USA holds truer to capitalism and the rights of the individual to succeed or fail than most developed countries. But there are safety nets, though not all are government provided.

Product safety, workplace safety, equity, trademark, etc, laws in the States are on par with the best in the world. And I've been in most European and many Asian countries.

China, on the other hand...

Psimet2001 

First let's take China....like anywhere else you can find good quality or bad quality. You just have to pay for it. Most aren't willing to...which is why you can't find the table saw you want.

It's not that I don't buy Chinese measuring devices because of bad quality...I just buy good wquality measuring devices....regardless of where they are made. Can't tell me there aren't any Chinese parts or boards in my Brown and Sharpe or Mitutoyo CMM....just sayin....

No worries machining cast. There are still plenty of us doing it although one of the biggest stateside consumers of it has taken a dump that's stinking up the industry. I'll give you a hint - their name is 3 letters and two of them are C and T.

Making high precision big cast iron parts stateside will always have it's place. At the very least you always win when it comes to the logistics. Kind of goes along with the saying, "you can't outsource plumbing."

Psimet2001 

I was going to say something along those lines but figured you would chime back in...

coasting 

when i eventually replace my wheels i'm going to buy from bob just so i can phone up and tell his wife what he said.