SRAM RED, People actually buy this stuff???
08-20-09, 05:49 PM
#251
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There is no question DA is up there with Campy. Infact DA trumps Campy on a few things, and Campy trumps DA on a few things.
What im surprised at is, some people think that Sram is BETTER than Campy, and consequently DA.
As I posted before, light, reliable/durable and cheap dont all go together. You have to pick two and sacrifice one.
Sram users seem to think Sram has figured out how to have geese lay golden eggs.
What im surprised at is, some people think that Sram is BETTER than Campy, and consequently DA.
As I posted before, light, reliable/durable and cheap dont all go together. You have to pick two and sacrifice one.
Sram users seem to think Sram has figured out how to have geese lay golden eggs.
SRAM Red is a hell of a deal and lighter than everything else. I actually love the way the Red stuff looks, just not how it performs. Being an engineer type, I opt for the latter since DA also comes with less maintenance.
If I had to rate the two:
Code:
DA SRAM Shifting 5 3 Noise 5 3 "Looks" 2 5 Maintenance 4 3 Price 3 5 Weight 3 5 --------------------------- Totals 22 24 Avg 3.6 4
Last edited by tonski; 08-20-09 at 05:52 PM.
08-20-09, 05:52 PM
#252
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Take it up with him, not me.....
08-20-09, 05:56 PM
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08-20-09, 05:56 PM
#254
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DA is not heavy, thats a fact. Its also not that expensive considering that Record, or even Super Record is hella more expensive.
08-20-09, 05:57 PM
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Please leave the state. I would like to have as few stupid people as possible residing here.
08-20-09, 05:58 PM
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08-20-09, 05:58 PM
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08-20-09, 06:01 PM
#258
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08-20-09, 06:01 PM
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Also, I didn't see that post. I thought you were referencing another post. I don't have time to read through 11 pages to find one post.
08-20-09, 06:03 PM
#260
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08-20-09, 06:08 PM
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08-20-09, 06:29 PM
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The DA stuff is also almost half a pound heavier (if I remember correctly, I haven't looked those numbers up in over half a year).
08-20-09, 06:54 PM
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I don't think a lot of you guys who try to make a comparison to Campy really know just how superior Campy is. Most days I just ride in the drops and never touch the shifters. Just by thinking my next gear up or down it shifts. I tell you it is downright telepathic. This isn't in any of the marketing literature because most wouldn't believe it.
08-20-09, 07:28 PM
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All of these points are arguable.
1)"Superior technology" and "excellent manufacturing solution" are both matters of opinion, application, and philosophy. Apple helpdesk still uses Windows. The amount of software developed for Apple? Still pretty weak. Ease of really using Apple (doing stuff that the nerds that are into "uptime", "support hour" stats, and training hours are into) is pretty low. The general user base for Apple aren't hardcore OS architecture geeks and if they were they'd know that OS X is a unix flavor Apple bought from Berkeley because their previous OSes just couldn't hack it.
2.1)Uptime statistics? How many of us are running any kind of server that requires constant access? [I do].
2.2)Support hour statistics? Who cares? MS has a lot larger user base which turns into more support hours - on top of that MS also has a significantly larger corporate user base (probably not because it's "superior" to mac though).
2.3)Noone wants to steal pictures of your dog or a video you made of yourself dancing around your room in a thong. Small user base means a smaller audience for the virus which makes it unappealing since it's a point of pride [in that group] to reach out and touch a larger audience.
3)Mac has those annoying hipster baby boomer commercials. (Not that MS is much better.) And the refusal to change the way they measure processor speed is stupid, they outperform the Intel and all the others but the "would be an Apple fan but I'm not a hipster" crowd that just looks at the usual gimmicks Best Buy markets say "wow Apples are so slow". If I got an Apple for free, Debian would be on it within 20 minutes, drivers or not so I wouldn't have to deal with that **** interface.
To the original post. No, I just bought DA because after 3 different mechanics looked at the Red it still wouldn't shift as well as I would have liked and none of the parts were damaged. The DA is flawless and quiet. The Red shifted okay but it was noisy (even with DA chain and cassette). I used Red only for a few months before I found a good deal on the DA stuff.
1)"Superior technology" and "excellent manufacturing solution" are both matters of opinion, application, and philosophy. Apple helpdesk still uses Windows. The amount of software developed for Apple? Still pretty weak. Ease of really using Apple (doing stuff that the nerds that are into "uptime", "support hour" stats, and training hours are into) is pretty low. The general user base for Apple aren't hardcore OS architecture geeks and if they were they'd know that OS X is a unix flavor Apple bought from Berkeley because their previous OSes just couldn't hack it.
2.1)Uptime statistics? How many of us are running any kind of server that requires constant access? [I do].
2.2)Support hour statistics? Who cares? MS has a lot larger user base which turns into more support hours - on top of that MS also has a significantly larger corporate user base (probably not because it's "superior" to mac though).
2.3)Noone wants to steal pictures of your dog or a video you made of yourself dancing around your room in a thong. Small user base means a smaller audience for the virus which makes it unappealing since it's a point of pride [in that group] to reach out and touch a larger audience.
3)Mac has those annoying hipster baby boomer commercials. (Not that MS is much better.) And the refusal to change the way they measure processor speed is stupid, they outperform the Intel and all the others but the "would be an Apple fan but I'm not a hipster" crowd that just looks at the usual gimmicks Best Buy markets say "wow Apples are so slow". If I got an Apple for free, Debian would be on it within 20 minutes, drivers or not so I wouldn't have to deal with that **** interface.
To the original post. No, I just bought DA because after 3 different mechanics looked at the Red it still wouldn't shift as well as I would have liked and none of the parts were damaged. The DA is flawless and quiet. The Red shifted okay but it was noisy (even with DA chain and cassette). I used Red only for a few months before I found a good deal on the DA stuff.
08-20-09, 08:25 PM
#265
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08-20-09, 08:31 PM
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08-20-09, 09:15 PM
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I don't think a lot of you guys who try to make a comparison to Campy really know just how superior Campy is. Most days I just ride in the drops and never touch the shifters. Just by thinking my next gear up or down it shifts. I tell you it is downright telepathic. This isn't in any of the marketing literature because most wouldn't believe it.
True story.
08-20-09, 09:30 PM
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All very good posts.
But thats the thing, I have yet to see anything that actually makes it comparable.
Other than "i like it" or, "campy is too expensive" and weight, I have never seen any posts on factual things that one might even begin to compare the two.
I was a die hard Shimano guy for years, I had many teamates/friends and so on who rode Campy.
I can give a solid list of how Shimano competes against Campy. I recently switched to Campy and my opinions havent changed before and after. Campy stuff is just on a different level. Even though I rode Shimano for many happy years, realistically, Campy is Campy.
I am dumb founded on the SRAM stuff though. I mean, just from looks alone, it looks poorly designed and it looks like cheap materials. Oh wait, cheap is one of its strengths isnt it?
Since when is "double tapping" anything more efficient that tapping something once? This is a puzzle to me.
The rear mech looks like its out of the eighties. Is the "retro look" the intention? I can see that being appealing to some people.
Is it just nationalistic loyalty?
But thats the thing, I have yet to see anything that actually makes it comparable.
Other than "i like it" or, "campy is too expensive" and weight, I have never seen any posts on factual things that one might even begin to compare the two.
I was a die hard Shimano guy for years, I had many teamates/friends and so on who rode Campy.
I can give a solid list of how Shimano competes against Campy. I recently switched to Campy and my opinions havent changed before and after. Campy stuff is just on a different level. Even though I rode Shimano for many happy years, realistically, Campy is Campy.
I am dumb founded on the SRAM stuff though. I mean, just from looks alone, it looks poorly designed and it looks like cheap materials. Oh wait, cheap is one of its strengths isnt it?
Since when is "double tapping" anything more efficient that tapping something once? This is a puzzle to me.
The rear mech looks like its out of the eighties. Is the "retro look" the intention? I can see that being appealing to some people.
Is it just nationalistic loyalty?
Also keep in mind, some people baby their stuff, some people ride the sh1t out of their stuff and any one of those people can buy a Shimano/Sram/Campy product, and any one of those people can come on to a forum and trashtalk the other. It gets us no where.
08-20-09, 10:47 PM
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There is no question DA is up there with Campy. Infact DA trumps Campy on a few things, and Campy trumps DA on a few things.
What im surprised at is, some people think that Sram is BETTER than Campy, and consequently DA.
As I posted before, light, reliable/durable and cheap dont all go together. You have to pick two and sacrifice one.
Sram users seem to think Sram has figured out how to have geese lay golden eggs.
What im surprised at is, some people think that Sram is BETTER than Campy, and consequently DA.
As I posted before, light, reliable/durable and cheap dont all go together. You have to pick two and sacrifice one.
Sram users seem to think Sram has figured out how to have geese lay golden eggs.
08-20-09, 11:42 PM
#270
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Do you really think that a light weight Formula 1 race car is cheap to make?
Do you think that an Audi R8 is cheap to make?
Do you think that making a Dura Ace groupset costs the same as making a 105 groupset?
Why dont you start by reading up on mining and materials. Look up Titanium, how, where its mined, then read on how to work with Titanium.
Read up on the properties of Tatanium, and properties on alloys, read on how you work with either, and how either makes a difference in manufacturing.
If your point was retail and mark up and that rudimentary stuff, even a school kid who works at the GAP knows that crap is marked up willy-nilly. GAP, Banana Republic and OLD NAVY all use the same factories. Sony Samsung is all the same crap, VW, AUDI is al, the same crap.
I know you thought you had a good point, but sorry, retail markups is too rudimentary for this thread.....
Nobody is arguing retail prices here.
Come up with another point...
08-20-09, 11:46 PM
#271
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This has brought in new and solid arguments we all didnt consider. Heck, if this was the first reply, this thread would have been forgotten by now.
Nothing like a "you are who you are, and you can buy what ever you want to buy, and different people like different things" response that really clarifies things.
08-20-09, 11:56 PM
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Howzit, you trying to get banned again?
08-21-09, 12:14 AM
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08-21-09, 12:23 AM
#274
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08-21-09, 12:27 AM
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