Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

A whole new way for your tires to wear out

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

A whole new way for your tires to wear out

Old 09-01-09, 07:07 PM
  #1  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
A whole new way for your tires to wear out

Today I'm out riding my Zipp 404 clincher rear wheel with the PowerTap. 2 miles into the ride *KABOOM!*, rear tire blows. I say to myself, 'Hey Pcad, that sounded like a pinch flat'. I swap the tube, try to make sure it's not pinching, put the CO2 on and *KABOOM!*. So I figure something is up. Mrs. Pcad was on the way to work and would be passing by so she came around and brought me a wheel change and I completed my ride.

Part II

Then tonight I'm in the Pcad Bike Bunker (my garage) and I note that no matter what I do, I can't get the tube to sit without pinching. Thought I had it once, inflate to 100 lbs and *KABOOM!*. So I put on a brand new tire (all Pcad Approved® Conti GP4000 Tires), and immediately I am able to easily seat the tube and inflate the tire.

The diagnosis? That tire was on that wheel for nearly two years. Although it appears to have plenty of tread life left, the wire beads have lost their original rigidity (all the middle aged men here know what I'm talking about here) and wouldn't hold the tube in place properly. Some rims are worse than others, deep dish carbon clincher wheels seem much less forgiving for some reason than regular alu rims.

Viagra won't help with that. Just PBK and a bunch of new tires.

Make a note of it you hapless weenies. And don't say I never contribute anything valuable to this den of velo junkies.
patentcad is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 07:10 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As soon as a tire blows from a pinch flat the beads are weakened and *should* be replaced, or at least, can very easily blow off the rim again.

I also learned that the hard way, then got confirmation of what was going on from the tire manufacturer.
n8tron is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 07:18 PM
  #3  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by n8tron
As soon as a tire blows from a pinch flat the beads are weakened and *should* be replaced, or at least, can very easily blow off the rim again.

I also learned that the hard way, then got confirmation of what was going on from the tire manufacturer.
I don't think the tire is going to blow off the rim (I've really ridden tires into the ground far more than this tire), but with the wrong wheel, it can make it difficult to seat an inner tube or avoid pinch flats.

At any rate, this may be common knowledge, but in 25 years around the sport and changing my own tubes and tires, this was the first time I ran across this situation.

patentcad is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 07:21 PM
  #4  
Economists do it w/models
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ottawa/Toronto
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
What other cycling goods are PCad approved?
bikeybikebike is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 07:25 PM
  #5  
Pretend Racer
 
dcvelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern Neck
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by n8tron
As soon as a tire blows from a pinch flat the beads are weakened and *should* be replaced, or at least, can very easily blow off the rim again.

I also learned that the hard way, then got confirmation of what was going on from the tire manufacturer.
There's a way to replace the beads? I know you can do that with jewelry, but...
dcvelo is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 07:34 PM
  #6  
Stand and Deliver
 
FLvector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 3,340

Bikes: Cannondale R1000, Giant TCR Advanced, Giant TCR Advanced SL

Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
You get 2 years out of a rear tire? Must be that Viagra working its wonders.

I must be missing something here. Please elaborate.
FLvector is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 07:47 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
spinerguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SO-CAL
Posts: 851

Bikes: Litespeed Teramo, Argon 18 Road, Fuji Mt Fuji Pro MTB, Fuji Track Pro FG, & Cannondale Quick CX Cross

Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by patentcad
The diagnosis? That tire was on that wheel for nearly two years. Although it appears to have plenty of tread life left, the wire beads have lost their original rigidity
Wtf, Zip 404 with a power meter and...wire beaded tires???
Your senior 90+ racing card should be taken away from you.

Aren't you the dude that puts 20K monthly miles? It's a miracle already that a tire last about two years and still *have plenty of tread life left* at that mileage. Praise the cycling gods!!!
spinerguy is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 07:50 PM
  #8  
location:northern Ohio
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
A good silicone spray might be useful in preserving tires+ beads when not in use.
Would not recommend it on a middle age tallywacker though.
spry is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 07:52 PM
  #9  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,029

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad
she came around and brought me a wheel change and I completed my ride..
This is the most amazing part of the the story.
noisebeam is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 08:00 PM
  #10  
In the dark
 
cshell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 1,890
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Pictures!!
cshell is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 08:12 PM
  #11  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by FLvector
You get 2 years out of a rear tire? Must be that Viagra working its wonders.

.
Powertap wheel. I use it for some interval sessions and for TT races and training. So it doesn't get a ton of miles.
patentcad is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 08:13 PM
  #12  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by noisebeam
This is the most amazing part of the the story.
Oh stop. What the F do you marry them for anyway?
patentcad is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 08:14 PM
  #13  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Plus, bear in mind I have 3 road bikes, a TT bike and an MTB bike. Plus a couple of extra sets of wheels. So the miles get spread around.
patentcad is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 08:15 PM
  #14  
Stand and Deliver
 
FLvector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 3,340

Bikes: Cannondale R1000, Giant TCR Advanced, Giant TCR Advanced SL

Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by patentcad
Powertap wheel. I use it for some interval sessions and for TT races and training. So it doesn't get a ton of miles.
Aha, I new I must be missing something.
FLvector is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 08:32 PM
  #15  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 25

Bikes: Downtube IV FS

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i think i no what you're missing
topher110 is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 08:38 PM
  #16  
location:northern Ohio
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by patentcad
Oh stop. What the F do you marry them for anyway?
sheep can,t do dishes?
spry is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 08:41 PM
  #17  
This steel horse I ride
 
Skones MickLoud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Warshington DC
Posts: 187

Bikes: 1980something Schwinn Tempo

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by spry
sheep can,t do dishes?
And they're awful cooks.
Skones MickLoud is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 08:55 PM
  #18  
location:northern Ohio
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
{CLANG!}

(the sound of a frying pan hitting the back of some geezers head in NY)
spry is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 09:09 PM
  #19  
Living Notoriously Well
 
mr handy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 886

Bikes: 06 Felt F80

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I thought conti GP4000's had Kevlar beads... even the 2 year old ones...
mr handy is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 10:38 PM
  #20  
crazy bike girl
 
msincredible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 3,325

Bikes: '07 Orbea Onix, '07 Birdy Yellow, '06 Cannondale Bad Boy (stolen)

Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I had the same issue several years ago. Made me a bit nervous about pumping up my tires for a while after.
__________________
Countries I've ridden in: US, Canada, Ireland, UK, Germany, Netherlands, France, China, Singapore, Malaysia
States I've ridden in: Illinois, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, California, Nevada, Missouri, Colorado
msincredible is offline  
Old 09-01-09, 11:19 PM
  #21  
Dion Rides
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by bikeybikebike
What other cycling goods are PCad approved?
*tee hee*

 
Old 09-01-09, 11:22 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
TrippleB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
you are right in your observation that carbon clinchers are harder on tires. the heat transfer of the carbon rim to the tire wears out the bead faster.

keep in mind that after several thousand miles of use (like over 20,000 miles) the aluminum rim will wear down from braking, road grit, etc. and combinations thereof. as this happens it will transfer heat more readily to the bead, lose its rigidity and ability to hold the tire securely.

also of note is that rubber, nylon and kevlar all have shelf lives. they wear out over time. while aging your tubies and clinchers in your bike bunker (cool dry place) for a year won't wear em out, keeping them stretched around a rim will.

if you have tubies or clinchers you save just for race day, be sure to check them semi anually. more importantly, ride them and wear em out before they wear out on you.
TrippleB is offline  
Old 09-02-09, 07:09 AM
  #23  
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1) Pinch flats don't go *KABOOM*! (you've been riding for how long?)

2) "A stretched bead doesn't matter"

From: jbrandt@........ (Jobst Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Conti GP blowout
Date: 18 May 2001 16:53:14 GMT

Terry Morse writes:

>>> - Can the Kevlar bead have stretched? (The tyre is very easy to
>>> mount on the rim.)

>> Doesn't matter. The bead is not what holds the tire on the rim.

> A little clarification: A stretched bead doesn't matter, but it is
> the bead that holds the tire on the rim by hooking onto the bead on
> the inside of the rim.

> Someone (Damon Rinard?) did an experiment to show this by cutting
> the bead of a tire in several places, and it still held pressure
> fine.

That someone was I and Damon repeated the experiment after heated
debate here on wreck.bike erupted when I pointed out that it is
primarily the clinch that holds tires on rims.

The tire blow-off in question most likely occurred because the tube
was between the bed of the rim and bead so that the bead was not fully
seated. It is this phenomenon that inspired my test of cutting the
wire bead in five places on a worn out tire and inflating it to 100
psi.
Phantoj is offline  
Old 09-02-09, 07:11 AM
  #24  
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Er, maybe we have different definitions of a "pinch flat"...
Phantoj is offline  
Old 09-02-09, 07:12 AM
  #25  
Ho-Jahm
 
Hocam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 4,228
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So you're saying you need to ride more so the tread wears before the bead gives out?
Hocam is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.