Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

cassette biting into hub

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

cassette biting into hub

Old 09-05-09, 01:50 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
surfengine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Laguna Hills
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
cassette biting into hub

took off my cassette today and found that it had pushed grooves into the hub.
anybody know what causes this?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
DSC00231.jpg (92.5 KB, 76 views)
File Type: jpg
DSC00232.jpg (89.9 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg
DSC00234.jpg (87.6 KB, 33 views)
surfengine is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 01:52 PM
  #2  
Chepooka
 
StupidlyBrave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 1,179

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1400 7spd; 2001 Litespeed Arenberg 10 speed

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times in 652 Posts
Generally, individual steel cogs vs. a softer aluminum freehub body.
StupidlyBrave is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 01:53 PM
  #3  
Still can't climb
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Limey in Taiwan
Posts: 23,024
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
are freehub bodies generally aluminium and not steel? i have a shimano wheel.
__________________
coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack
coasting is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 01:54 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston,TX
Posts: 358

Bikes: Giant Defy2, Soul Faith

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Looks like steel cogs vs. aluminum freehub. My question is why would someone make a freehub out of aluminum? Weight weenieism extends that far?
PurpleFender is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 02:02 PM
  #5  
Chepooka
 
StupidlyBrave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 1,179

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1400 7spd; 2001 Litespeed Arenberg 10 speed

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times in 652 Posts
I suspect that it's more of a manufacturing cost issue. Aluminum can be machined faster and with less tool wear.
StupidlyBrave is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 02:02 PM
  #6  
Rice Baker
 
ted ward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 566
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by PurpleFender
Looks like steel cogs vs. aluminum freehub. My question is why would someone make a freehub out of aluminum? Weight weenieism extends that far?
In guessing being able to advertise lighter weight with little to no extra cost for the manufacturer. Aluminum freehub bodies should be shunned on anything with shallow splines but manufacturers want compatibility and light weight. The Sram red cassettes work pretty well on aluminum shallow-splined freehubs due to their single "carrier" on the 7 largest cogs.
ted ward is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 02:06 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 369

Bikes: too many to list

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Your pictures show normal wear for an aluminum freehub body. Don't worry about it.

As for what causes it.... the torque from your legs.
crispy010 is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 02:07 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
It's caused by failure to follow directions.

Check out the torque spec that's engraved on the lockring. 40 nm = 30 lb/ft. That's a good amount. Imagine a 30 lb weight hanging off the end of a foot long wrench. It's certainly more than I would use if I were depending on my own judgement. If you tighten your cassette that amount, it will lock all of the cogs together so that individual cogs can't bite into the freehub body.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 02:12 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 369

Bikes: too many to list

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
It's caused by failure to follow directions.

Check out the torque spec that's engraved on the lockring. 40 nm = 30 lb/ft. That's a good amount. Imagine a 30 lb weight hanging off the end of a foot long wrench. It's certainly more than I would use if I were depending on my own judgement. If you tighten your cassette that amount, it will lock all of the cogs together so that individual cogs can't bite into the freehub body.
To be honest, every time I torqued a lockring to the spec'd amount it came loose a couple hundred miles later. I now use the "torque until it feels right" method.

And 30 lb-ft is not much at all.
crispy010 is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 02:20 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by crispy010
To be honest, every time I torqued a lockring to the spec'd amount it came loose a couple hundred miles later. I now use the "torque until it feels right" method.

And 30 lb-ft is not much at all.
I'm finding that hard to believe. 30 lb/ft is bottom bracket and crank arm torque. Those are, by a good margin, the tightest fasteners on a bicycle.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 02:25 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
vladav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 259
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What you need are the AmericanClassic inserts (Thanks WR!)

https://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-269650.html
105 10-Speed (https://www.amclassic.com/pdfs/web10_Speed105.pdf)
Ultegra 10-Speed Clips (https://www.amclassic.com/pdfs/web10_SpeedUltegra.pdf)
Dura-Ace 10-Speed Clips (https://www.amclassic.com/pdfs/web10_SpeedDuraAce.pdf)
vladav is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 02:33 PM
  #12  
moth -----> flame
 
Beaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,916

Bikes: 11 CAAD 10-4, 07 Specialized Roubaix Comp, 98 Peugeot Horizon

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
'Tis your fearsome wattage. Apparently no big deal for the wear shown in your pictures, keep on working on those grooves.
__________________
BF, in a nutshell
Beaker is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 03:35 PM
  #13  
zone 2
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 591

Bikes: BMC Teammachine

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by crispy010
And 30 lb-ft is not much at all.
30 lb-ft = 350 inch pounds. It's a lot.
LorenzoNF is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 03:38 PM
  #14  
zone 2
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 591

Bikes: BMC Teammachine

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
It's caused by failure to follow directions.
Incorrect.

Originally Posted by StupidlyBrave
Generally, individual steel cogs vs. a softer aluminum freehub body.
Correct.

Originally Posted by crispy010
Your pictures show normal wear for an aluminum freehub body. Don't worry about it.

As for what causes it.... the torque from your legs.
Correct.
LorenzoNF is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 04:05 PM
  #15  
No matches
 
Flatballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,647

Bikes: two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1398 Post(s)
Liked 444 Times in 250 Posts
Originally Posted by LorenzoNF
30 lb-ft = 350 inch pounds. It's a lot.
I wouldn't call it a lot. It might be "a lot" to someone who only works on bikes, but it's not really a lot as an overall fastener torque. On my lockrings I use a 12" crescent wrench. 30lbs isn't very much force for me to put on, I don't have a torque wrench with me, but I can guarantee from feel that I'm putting much closer to 60 ft lbs on there, never had a problem overtightening them.

As everyone else has said, that's a Shimano cassette and an aluminum freehub body. Campy cassettes don't do it, and SRAM cassettes don't do it much, because of the way they're designed.

If you want to run Shimano cassettes on an aluminum freehub body, get the American Classic clips mentioned above. You'll have to call American Classic (unless it has changed), they aren't listed for sale anywhere.


And by the way, 30*12 isn't 350. Just thought you should know.
Flatballer is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 04:38 PM
  #16  
zone 2
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 591

Bikes: BMC Teammachine

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Flatballer
And by the way, 30*12 isn't 350. Just thought you should know.
Approx.
LorenzoNF is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 05:44 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
surfengine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Laguna Hills
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I should mention. i only have ~2000miles on that wheel. should it really look like that?
if thats normal wear, then I would have to replace the wheel after like 10k miles?

If SRAM doesnt do it...then cheaper to buy the SRAM now before the hub is ruined?
surfengine is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 05:46 PM
  #18  
No matches
 
Flatballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,647

Bikes: two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1398 Post(s)
Liked 444 Times in 250 Posts
A) yes, that looks about normal. I've seen much worse, but from big sprinters.

B) you wouldn't have to replace the wheel, just the freehub body

C) either get a SRAM cassette, or get the American Classic clips (much cheaper).
Flatballer is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 05:50 PM
  #19  
Still can't climb
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Limey in Taiwan
Posts: 23,024
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
do people take off the cassette much? what for?

i'm wondering if there is some sort of maintenance i'm missing.
__________________
coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack
coasting is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 06:03 PM
  #20  
Chepooka
 
StupidlyBrave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 1,179

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1400 7spd; 2001 Litespeed Arenberg 10 speed

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times in 652 Posts
Originally Posted by Flatballer
Campy cassettes don't do it,
This freehub body had a Campagnolo centaur cassette on it. The 25t through 21t cogs pinned together as a unit.

StupidlyBrave is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 06:11 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 369

Bikes: too many to list

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by surfengine
I should mention. i only have ~2000miles on that wheel. should it really look like that?
if thats normal wear, then I would have to replace the wheel after like 10k miles?

If SRAM doesnt do it...then cheaper to buy the SRAM now before the hub is ruined?
Dude, relax. These notches are nothing to worry about - until they get really deep (greater than half the width of the spline or so), they won't affect how your bike works. If this is the most problematic thing in your life I envy you!
crispy010 is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 06:13 PM
  #22  
No matches
 
Flatballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,647

Bikes: two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1398 Post(s)
Liked 444 Times in 250 Posts
Originally Posted by StupidlyBrave
This freehub body had a Campagnolo centaur cassette on it. The 25t through 21t cogs pinned together as a unit.

I meant they don't do it as badly, and it doesn't affect anything. There's so much material there, much better design the way it interlocks.
Flatballer is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 06:39 PM
  #23  
Aluminium Crusader :-)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 10,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Yep, this is an annoying weight weenie-ism. I just weighed an aluminium body and an oldish 9sp steel Shimano one, and the difference is a measly 43g!

The cogs can eventually be very hard to get off, which is obviously a drag if ya wanna change wheels regularly.

Campag is a better design for this. Unfortunately, Shimano designed their bodies way before alu was common for this use, so it's not a good design for a soft metal.

Also, the threads for the lockring are a lot easier to strip.
531Aussie is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 09:19 PM
  #24  
The Recycled Cycler
 
markwebb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,399

Bikes: Real Steel. Really. Ti is cool, too !

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Note that the SRAM freehub bodies don't work with DA cassettes.

Originally Posted by Flatballer
A) yes, that looks about normal. I've seen much worse, but from big sprinters.

B) you wouldn't have to replace the wheel, just the freehub body

C) either get a SRAM cassette, or get the American Classic clips (much cheaper).
markwebb is offline  
Old 09-05-09, 10:30 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
surfengine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Laguna Hills
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by coasting
do people take off the cassette much? what for?

i'm wondering if there is some sort of maintenance i'm missing.
in this case, i removed it because a spoke broke and i figured it was easier to work on the spoke with the cassette off.
other than that, cleaning with mineral spirits or swapping to another wheel are 2 things I can think of.
surfengine is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.