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Arrogant Dr.'s Trial Finally Begins

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Arrogant Dr.'s Trial Finally Begins

Old 10-29-09, 09:45 AM
  #151  
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It's a SoCal courtroom. Somehow I feel the jury is going to screw this up just like they screw up every other case.
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Old 10-29-09, 09:48 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by milnerpt View Post
Shouldnt the stopping distance not only include stopping power, inertia/weight of the rider, but also the surface contact area? If the friction co-effcient is higher or lower, wouldnt that affect it as well... for instance, rain, snow, ice, etc.... but also the tire size and composition. I would bet I can stop a lot quicker on fat knobbies than worn slicks.
Not really an issue, if your front wheel is sliding along the ground then no amount of braking power is going to help you. Also, unless the tire is actually sticky, dry friction is not depending on contact area. The only coefficient that really matters for bicycle is the one between the brake pad and the rim.
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Old 10-29-09, 10:13 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by raptor3x View Post
The only coefficient that really matters for bicycle is the one between the brake pad and the rim.
If you have reasonable brakes on aluminum rims it is not difficult to apply enough force to lift the rear wheel.
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Old 10-29-09, 10:39 AM
  #154  
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Good cross of the ∆ by the ADA. Didn't really need to do any more than that. From the tenor of it, sounds like the ∆ not coming off as very credible, so really no need to hammer him other than with his own 911 call and on scene statements. Couple things come to mind, his denial of the incident with the car mechanic is not good. Especially since the guy was able to ID him from a lineup.

Can't wait for closing arguments, there are so many to be made for the prosecution. While nothing is a slam dunk, I don't see an acquittal of the more serious charges in the ∆'s future. [Edit: but then again, I am not familiar with LA county juries, although it shouldn't matter that much, should it?]
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Old 10-29-09, 10:51 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by zac View Post
[Edit: but then again, I am not familiar with LA county juries, although it shouldn't matter that much, should it?]
I have been on 2 LA county juries and my wife has been on one. Out of twelve people, there always seems to be at least one person who conjures up some outlandish alternate reality, even over issues that have overwhelming evidence. For example, one jury had 2 people who just refused to vote guilty on an assault charge despite a video of the woman charging behind the sales counter and striking the employee on the head with her hand multiple times. The rationale for not guilty: She was the customer and the customer is always right. Another case had a person convinced that if nobody saw the perpetrator commit the crime, then there couldn't possibly be proof that he did it. She was read the definition of circumstantial repeated times and still wouldn't budge.

Based on my limited experience in this system, I'm still only considering it a 50/50 chance that all twelve of the jury members see the facts in this case for what they are. I doubt an acquittal, but hung juries are all too common.
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Old 10-29-09, 10:57 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by milnerpt View Post
Shouldnt the stopping distance not only include stopping power, inertia/weight of the rider, but also the surface contact area? If the friction co-effcient is higher or lower, wouldnt that affect it as well... for instance, rain, snow, ice, etc.... but also the tire size and composition. I would bet I can stop a lot quicker on fat knobbies than worn slicks.
The CFR standard performance test specifies the road surface and other factors - I posted a link to it earlier. The intent of the test is to define a standard for safety - I don't think manufacturers are required to do this test (but they might on a prototype design), I think it's there in case anybody wants to sue a manufacturer for making an unsafe bike. It's completely bogus to apply this kind of a standard to an accident reconstruction scenario.

OK, this is damning stuff:

Stone asked Thompson, “You pulled in front and slammed on your brakes.”
“I did not slam on my brakes,” Thompson responded.
Stone then played the 911 tape again in which Thompson clearly says to the operator, “I slammed on my brakes.”

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Old 10-29-09, 11:38 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
The CFR standard performance test specifies the road surface and other factors - I posted a link to it earlier. The intent of the test is to define a standard for safety - I don't think manufacturers are required to do this test (but they might on a prototype design), I think it's there in case anybody wants to sue a manufacturer for making an unsafe bike. It's completely bogus to apply this kind of a standard to an accident reconstruction scenario.

OK, this is damning stuff:

Stone asked Thompson, “You pulled in front and slammed on your brakes.”
“I did not slam on my brakes,” Thompson responded.
Stone then played the 911 tape again in which Thompson clearly says to the operator, “I slammed on my brakes.”
Agreed, the whole cross is good. He assents to everything, except for the stuff that hurts him...juries tend to eat that stuff up, especially if you can keep it short and to the point.
If it comes off good in a transcript, it is usually much better in court room, (unless the ADA is an inept trial attorney - and I doubt that as she is doing superior court level felonies)

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Old 10-29-09, 11:51 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post

Based on my limited experience in this system, I'm still only considering it a 50/50 chance that all twelve of the jury members see the facts in this case for what they are. I doubt an acquittal, but hung juries are all too common.
I wasn't going to get into my rant about professional jurors, but I'd be more confident in a case like this one if our system used them.
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Old 10-29-09, 11:51 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
I have been on 2 LA county juries and my wife has been on one. Out of twelve people, there always seems to be at least one person who conjures up some outlandish alternate reality, even over issues that have overwhelming evidence. For example, one jury had 2 people who just refused to vote guilty on an assault charge despite a video of the woman charging behind the sales counter and striking the employee on the head with her hand multiple times. The rationale for not guilty: She was the customer and the customer is always right. Another case had a person convinced that if nobody saw the perpetrator commit the crime, then there couldn't possibly be proof that he did it. She was read the definition of circumstantial repeated times and still wouldn't budge.

Based on my limited experience in this system, I'm still only considering it a 50/50 chance that all twelve of the jury members see the facts in this case for what they are. I doubt an acquittal, but hung juries are all too common.
I understand what you are saying, and that is true of many juries, not just in So.California. That is what defense counsel secretly hope for, but hanging your hat on it occurring going into the trial is never a sane trial tactic.

The thing that will affect the jury more here is the ∆ is a highly educated person, and coming across to them as not credible and arrogant, will hurt him dearly. Some defendant's come across as sympathetic, and a juror/jury will look for reasons to acquit, this guy doesn't. The only reason I can fathom why he took the stand was to get out his past and have the jury try to (re)humanize him somewhat. The direct case was pretty damning. Not sure if his counsel advised against him on the stand, most likely, but he was probably arrogant enough to feel in his own mind that he is NG...some ∆'s are like that...

Maybe a bit of a temporary insanity defense would have been better off. Something like: "they flipped me off, and I snapped; I don't know what came over me, I am a doctor, I am a healer, but then at that time and place, I flew into a rage, I couldn't control myself, but I am better now..." you get the idea. But the prior "pattern" incidents negate that defense, at least here.

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Old 10-29-09, 12:00 PM
  #160  
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It seems like the P is letting him get away with the alternate story of stopping carefully to take a photo, asking the riders politely to ride single file, etc.

The riders were going the speed limit - 21202 doesn't even apply.
The riders were going the speed limit - Thompson had to go well faster than that to pass them.
If Thompson really wanted to take a photo, he would have done it from BEHIND the riders to show how they were blocking him.

Maybe the cross picked up on these things and it just didn't get reported, I don't know.
Looks like closing arguments later today.

I predict a guilty verdict; 6 months in County and a suspended license. Maybe house arrest.
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Old 10-29-09, 12:05 PM
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"OK, this is damning stuff:

Stone asked Thompson, “You pulled in front and slammed on your brakes.”
“I did not slam on my brakes,” Thompson responded.
Stone then played the 911 tape again in which Thompson clearly says to the operator, “I slammed on my brakes.” [/quote] "

Yes I would agree. The Doc better hope that a couple of jurors suffer from a metaphysical syndrome that causes them to digest things in reverse, which sounds about par for one in twelve California jurors.
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Old 10-29-09, 12:09 PM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
It seems like the P is letting him get away with the alternate story of stopping carefully to take a photo, asking the riders politely to ride single file, etc.

The riders were going the speed limit - 21202 doesn't even apply.
The riders were going the speed limit - Thompson had to go well faster than that to pass them.
If Thompson really wanted to take a photo, he would have done it from BEHIND the riders to show how they were blocking him.

Maybe the cross picked up on these things and it just didn't get reported, I don't know.
Looks like closing arguments later today.

I predict a guilty verdict; 6 months in County and a suspended license. Maybe house arrest.
Don't really need to cross on those things as the evidence was there on direct. They are all points to be emphasized in closing though. Wasn't there so don't know how it came off to the jury, but most likely it was just totally unbelievable. As said, the evidence came out on direct, he tried to counter it in his defense, the jury has to believe one or the other, and an argument can be made that even with his side, it is still assault with intent...

Given that, I am debating whether I would have asked him little "Bobby's" last name...for the record. Because quite frankly, me thinks that story is a total fabrication, or at least not as told.
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Old 10-29-09, 03:54 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by PSR215 View Post
"OK, this is damning stuff:

Stone asked Thompson, “You pulled in front and slammed on your brakes.”
“I did not slam on my brakes,” Thompson responded.
Stone then played the 911 tape again in which Thompson clearly says to the operator, “I slammed on my brakes.”
"

Yes I would agree. The Doc better hope that a couple of jurors suffer from a metaphysical syndrome that causes them to digest things in reverse, which sounds about par for one in twelve California jurors.[/QUOTE]

If he gets off, it will be a sad day for the legal system. Dude should get the max possible sentence--repeat offender, clear intent/motive.... Here's hoping for a quick and painful conviction and the stripping of a medical license.
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Old 10-29-09, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by zac View Post
Good cross of the ∆ by the ADA. Didn't really need to do any more than that. From the tenor of it, sounds like the ∆ not coming off as very credible, so really no need to hammer him other than with his own 911 call and on scene statements. Couple things come to mind, his denial of the incident with the car mechanic is not good. Especially since the guy was able to ID him from a lineup.

Can't wait for closing arguments, there are so many to be made for the prosecution. While nothing is a slam dunk, I don't see an acquittal of the more serious charges in the ∆'s future. [Edit: but then again, I am not familiar with LA county juries, although it shouldn't matter that much, should it?]
I use delta in math and physics problems. In law, I've seen the integral sign for sections, not the delta. Is this a new thing?
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Old 10-29-09, 04:41 PM
  #165  
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Delta for "defendant" perhaps? I use delta for "change".

Let's hope reason will prevail in this case. I wonder if he gets convicted, will there be riots in Brentwood and BelAir? Will the wealthy loot the Nordstroms and burn down their mansions? Or at least have their personal assistants write emails of strong protest of the verdict?
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Old 10-29-09, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
"
and the stripping of a medical license.
What can a doctor without a license do and not do? Consult? Research? Keep records?

Is he still "doctor" but not "MD" ? Can he write articles for NEJM?

I Gooogled but maybe I need some better key words because I get a lot of hits but no answers.
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Old 10-29-09, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Eclectus View Post
I use delta in math and physics problems. In law, I've seen the integral sign for sections, not the delta. Is this a new thing?
Law students and lawyers use it as an abbreviation for "defendant."
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Old 10-29-09, 04:53 PM
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delta = defendant, pi = plaintiff. i think you may be confusing the integral sign with this.
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Old 10-29-09, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Eclectus View Post
I use delta in math and physics problems. In law, I've seen the integral sign for sections, not the delta. Is this a new thing?
Delta or 'D' for defendant Pi symbol for plaintiff. Standard lawyer abbreviations.
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Old 10-29-09, 05:02 PM
  #170  
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Oh gosh, this is amazing!

Stone asked Thompson, “You pulled in front and slammed on your brakes.”
“I did not slam on my brakes,” Thompson responded.
Stone then played the 911 tape again in which Thompson clearly says to the operator, “I slammed on my brakes.”

Wow, I hope this guy gets sentenced to sweeping the shoulders of roads clear of debris for the rest of his life. All cyclists passing him are encouraged to punch him in the face when they see him.
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Old 10-29-09, 05:02 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
What can a doctor without a license do and not do? Consult? Research? Keep records?

Is he still "doctor" but not "MD" ? Can he write articles for NEJM?

I Gooogled but maybe I need some better key words because I get a lot of hits but no answers.
He's still a doctor, he just can't practice medicine. He's not doing that now anyway, he was running some kind of medical records management company, or something like that. He's a "former" ER doc. If convicted, he'll lose his license if he still had one. Still be able to call himself a doctor, though.
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Old 10-29-09, 05:12 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by DScott View Post
He's still a doctor, he just can't practice medicine. He's not doing that now anyway, he was running some kind of medical records management company, or something like that. He's a "former" ER doc. If convicted, he'll lose his license if he still had one. Still be able to call himself a doctor, though.
I assume when 'license suspended' is mentioned they are talking about his driver's license, not his medical license. This court does not have jurisdiction to deal with his medical license. Unless Calif. has a completely different system than other States, a criminal conviction is a factor the Medical licensing board may consider if a complaint is lodged with them.
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Old 10-29-09, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by danarnold View Post
I assume when 'license suspended' is mentioned they are talking about his driver's license, not his medical license. This court does not have jurisdiction to deal with his medical license. Unless Calif. has a completely different system than other States, a criminal conviction is a factor the Medical licensing board may consider if a complaint is lodged with them.
I'm licensed in DC and I'm pretty sure that any criminal conviction is grounds for a review and most likely a suspension/revocation by the board. The "have you ever been convicted of a felony" question is also on every single credentials/license application I've ever seen.
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Old 10-29-09, 05:29 PM
  #174  
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Sorry old habit: Δ = defendant, on my office computer it is a programmed shortcut for a freestanding "D"

Yes, and π = plaintiff, but this is a criminal case so we don't use that for the prosecution. Here in Mass. We use "C" for Commonwealth (of Massachusetts) and in California you use State (or People).


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Old 10-29-09, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
I'm licensed in DC and I'm pretty sure that any criminal conviction is grounds for a review and most likely a suspension/revocation by the board. The "have you ever been convicted of a felony" question is also on every single credentials/license application I've ever seen.
I agree. But that is a separate proceeding (right?) and one that has not been initiated at this time.

BTW, I'm guessing that this doc allowed his 'political' agenda, getting cyclists off the road, to overwhelm his good judgment to the extent he deluded himself into thinking that a quick stop would only scare the cyclists, or cause some minor injury.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was truly horrified when he saw what he had done.

Don't know the elements of the crime as charged in CA, but I'm guessing that once they prove he had the intent even to ' just scare them,' then he's responsible for the natural and logical consequences of his actions, even though the injuries were much worse than he may have thought at the time in his angry state of mind.
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