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What exactly is considered a fast group ride?

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What exactly is considered a fast group ride?

Old 10-22-09, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by hodie21 View Post
It is a very slight uphill. We keep it for about 3 to 4 miles towards the end of the ride. Some people are dropped when we do this. If you look at the elevation view of the ride it is between miles 32 and 38 usually after we come off the last downhill.
Assume this slight uphill is 2% (essentially a false flat) The person pulling is going to be putting out right around 700 watts to do 28mph. Even considering a substantial draft, just sitting in is going to take almost 500 watts.

500 watts for 8-10 minutes would be pretty darn impressive.
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Old 10-22-09, 07:29 AM
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I'm enjoying the stats in this thread 200% more than any other.
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Old 10-22-09, 07:36 AM
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I look at what is a fast ride a little differently. That is any ride I can stay with when it gets going good is not fast.
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Old 10-22-09, 07:37 AM
  #54  
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I think it's doable. Especially if you are decelerating from 40+ on the downhill. Especially if you glance momentarily at your computer and see 28mph for a split second and assume that it's steady-state
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Old 10-22-09, 07:43 AM
  #55  
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Bottom line: For us "non racers" 25 MPH is a decent solo TT pace to maintain for about an hour. Extend that time by another hour or two, and you need a group of at least 4 riders working well together to maintain it. Throw some 1's and 2's in there, sure crank it up a notch, but they'll tear your legs off if you don't train at "speed" regularly.
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Old 10-22-09, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by hodie21 View Post
It is a very slight uphill. We keep it for about 3 to 4 miles towards the end of the ride. Some people are dropped when we do this. If you look at the elevation view of the ride it is between miles 32 and 38 usually after we come off the last downhill.
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Assume this slight uphill is 2% (essentially a false flat) The person pulling is going to be putting out right around 700 watts to do 28mph. Even considering a substantial draft, just sitting in is going to take almost 500 watts.
Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
I think it's doable. Especially if you are decelerating from 40+ on the downhill. Especially if you glance momentarily at your computer and see 28mph for a split second and assume that it's steady-state
Basically... it sounds like the "uphill" is being overstated here. Anyway, given enough further explanation and qualifications it sounds plausable, but the way it was originally stated was unrealisitic.
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Old 10-22-09, 08:13 AM
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Dear OP, except for those who are going the "if it's faster than you, it's a fast ride" response method, the group fast rides look to be pretty much 25mph +/- at cruising speed.
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Old 10-22-09, 09:53 AM
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To me, a "fast" group ride is anything that averages above 20 mph over a 25 mile plus ride with varying terrain. So much depends on terrain, wind, traffic, forced stops (traffic signals, stop signs, etc.), how the group works together, etc. The group I ride with generally rides around an 18 mph average on rides varying from 18 to 75 miles, with the average generally being a little higher on the longer rides. I would consider us a middling "B" group compared to other groups I've ridden with or seen. There are truly fast groups, generally CAT racers, that ride in the 24 to 26 mph range over 30 or so miles on their weekly evening rides. Even the strongest riders in my group, a couple of whom rose to CAT 3 before giving up racing, have a hard time staying with those groups, particularly when they get to serious climbs. Another factor is how the group rotates its paceline. We tend to pull for several miles before rotating. The faster groups may rotate every 30 seconds when they are really flying. Terrain is the other big factor. Even though I can average about 19 mph on a regular 73 mile ride that we do, I have another regular Tuesday night ride that is less than 17 miles and I have a hard time hitting 16 mph for an average because of several longish climbs.
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Old 10-22-09, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by garboplex View Post
Bottom line: For us "non racers" 25 MPH is a decent solo TT pace to maintain for about an hour. Extend that time by another hour or two, and you need a group of at least 4 riders working well together to maintain it. Throw some 1's and 2's in there, sure crank it up a notch, but they'll tear your legs off if you don't train at "speed" regularly.
No, that's a really, really fast solo TT pace for a non-racer.

Lots of good racers that struggle to break an hour in a 40k (which is about 25mph average) with all the aero gear and position work they can get.
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Old 10-22-09, 12:39 PM
  #60  
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Our fast group is 25mph on flat terrian with light winds, I can hold on with this group and some days do my fair share out front, other days it's a sufferfest the whole damn time. I just went over my data for the year and man if all you ever did was look at average speed, you'd stop riding. Including training rides, recovery rides, social group rides, and fast group rides my average speed is a whopping 15.4mph!
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Old 10-22-09, 01:21 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
No, that's a really, really fast solo TT pace for a non-racer.

Lots of good racers that struggle to break an hour in a 40k (which is about 25mph average) with all the aero gear and position work they can get.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
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Old 10-22-09, 01:29 PM
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Florida State TT results for Cat 4 this year:

http://www.floridacycling.com/result...92&eVclass=992

Majority of Cat 4's were below 25mph.
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Old 10-22-09, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by substructure View Post
Fast is relative.
If you're keeping up and talking, it's not fast.
If you're keeping up and breathing heavily but still able to say a few words, it's slightly fast.
If you're keeping up and breathing heavily but grunting like a caveman, it's getting fast.
If you're keeping up and breathing erratically, swearing in your mind, and cursing the guys pulling the group, it's getting fast.
If I'm up front, it's considered fast. And you'd be dropped within a mile or so.
I love it! That's how I measure fast! Except for the last line. If I'm up front we're slowing the hell down!
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Old 10-22-09, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Florida State TT results for Cat 4 this year:

http://www.floridacycling.com/result...92&eVclass=992

Majority of Cat 4's were below 25mph.
and that's Florida. Subtract 3 mph for a normal state.
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Old 10-22-09, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
and that's Florida. Subtract 3 mph for a normal state.
Is Raliegh normal?
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Old 10-22-09, 02:02 PM
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i rode a few times with fast people. i didn't like it.
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Old 10-22-09, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cshell View Post
Amen!

I was proud when I broke 16.5 mph as an AVERAGE for a ride over 15 miles.

I'm still trying.
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Old 10-22-09, 02:19 PM
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I love the amount of BS being thrown through this thread. For me, I like a brisk pace of 30mph. It's only 700 watts, no biggie.
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Old 10-22-09, 02:23 PM
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so tell me. on the flats. keeping a 23-25 mph pace for a good long time. is that reasonable?
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Old 10-22-09, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by coasting View Post
so tell me. on the flats. keeping a 23-25 mph pace for a good long time. is that reasonable?
Reasonable, sure... especially in a group.
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Old 10-22-09, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
Reasonable, sure... especially in a group.
solo.
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Old 10-22-09, 02:58 PM
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so how comes the fast guys kill me?
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Old 10-22-09, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by coasting View Post
so how comes the fast guys kill me?
Because they are stronger...
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Old 10-22-09, 03:42 PM
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While I understand there is what seems to be a lot of "big claims" in speed threads but I have never really understood what the problem is.

The speeds are what they are. If you are regularly out there riding in fast groups and/or racing you KNOW what a fast group is. What also helps is the group categorization system from USA Cycling. Not so much in the Cat 4/5 range but definitely for the 1/2 range.

In other words....if you know there are a great deal of cat 1/2 riders on a particular ride....and they say it's usually a "brisk" ride, or that there are a lot of "attacks", or it can get "spicy"....then it's fast.

Around here those are rides are most likely 23mph+ average. More likely they are in the 25-26mph range.

That's faster than a lot of good racers TT at....yes. We know that. That's what happens when you get some guys that can TT over 25 together in a group taking turns doing the work at the front.

Is it common to look down and see yourself going more than 30 on flat ground? Yes. Does that mean we're holding a 30mph pace? No.

It isn't uncommon for me to try to stick with the group when attacks come in and me to look down and see 27-30mph as I am struggling to hold on. Same as a race.

That said, I usually get dropped from rides that fast. I can't seem to average a ride over 23. My TT's are in the 23-24mph range.

A few years back I was cranking butt tons of mileage but was lucky to finish a ride at 18-19mph.

The differences between groups and speeds -
1. Terrain
2. Wind
3. Size of group
4. Intensity - let's talk as we ride, let's ride hard, really hard, race pace (time needed for recovery)
5. Skill and ability of those doing the work
6. Skill and ability of those not doing the work (staying out of the way and maximizing the benefit they can get off of others - obviously only if the ride is OK with that)
7. Whether or not they yell at you.
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Old 10-22-09, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by silversx80 View Post
Is Raliegh normal?
I'd say so. Raleigh is actually somewhat hilly. There's a decent amount of short/steep stuff, as well as long 3% stuff that seems like it never ends.
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