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Groupset choice

Old 11-05-09, 03:46 AM
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Robotman99
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Groupset choice

Unfortunately the deal for my Rival gruppo fell through so I'm starting to look for another groupset again. I've checked out some Campy groups and I was wondering how do the 10 speed groups compare to Shimano and SRAM's offerings?

2008 Veloce (with Ultra torque crankset and D-skeleton brakes) is a couple hundred bucks cheaper than Ultegra SL or Rival. How does it compare to those groups? Mirage is again cheaper than Veloce by a bit over $100. Again, how does that group compare? I've done a search on BF but all those threads were quite old and I'm seeking info on the newer lines. Thanks
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Old 11-05-09, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Robotman99 View Post
Unfortunately the deal for my Rival gruppo fell through so I'm starting to look for another groupset again. I've checked out some Campy groups and I was wondering how do the 10 speed groups compare to Shimano and SRAM's offerings?

2008 Veloce (with Ultra torque crankset and D-skeleton brakes) is a couple hundred bucks cheaper than Ultegra SL or Rival. How does it compare to those groups? Mirage is again cheaper than Veloce by a bit over $100. Again, how does that group compare? I've done a search on BF but all those threads were quite old and I'm seeking info on the newer lines. Thanks
have you checked the prices that a certain wheel building bf member sells rival at?

hint, look below.
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Old 11-05-09, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
have you checked the prices that a certain wheel building bf member sells rival at?

hint, look below.
Well the thing is, the Campy groupsets are priced a fair way below what any Rival would sell at so what I'm getting at is how does Veloce and Mirage compare to the pricier Ultegra and Rival (I'm looking to save a few bucks if it's worth it to spend on the wheels)
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Old 11-05-09, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
have you checked the prices that a certain wheel building bf member sells rival at?
He's not selling them anymore.
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Old 11-05-09, 08:34 AM
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I haven't used newer versions of Mirage but have it on my old Bianchi; I liked the ergonimics of the shifters than I did the shifting itself. I had to frequently maintain it to keep the shifting sharp. If you can get it cheaper than Rival or Ultegra then look into Chorus which is a pretty nice gruppo.
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Old 11-05-09, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by roadiejorge View Post
I haven't used newer versions of Mirage but have it on my old Bianchi; I liked the ergonimics of the shifters than I did the shifting itself. I had to frequently maintain it to keep the shifting sharp. If you can get it cheaper than Rival or Ultegra then look into Chorus which is a pretty nice gruppo.
you'll never find the new chorus cheaper than rival, there's almost no way.

a buddy of mine has a bianchi with veloce, its a solid 10-sp group, i would say easily comparable to 105, if not better. if i were pressed for cash i wouldnt hesitate to jump on a new veloce group. centaur (for a little more $$) is also an excellent value choice.

the next step up is the new athena, which gets you the newer 11-sp stuff.
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Old 11-05-09, 09:05 AM
  #7  
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The '08 Veloce has the escape shifter which I'm not a fan of but it does work fine with quick shifting. The rest of the group is functionally the same as Record of that year. Different material, less finishing adding to weight and reduced cost. It's a very good groupset. I think the AL Centaur would be closer weight wise to those other groupsets.
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Old 11-05-09, 09:05 AM
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I bought a new Veloce gruppo for my wife's build up. I have a Centaur gruppo on my Cinelli.

They look like jewelry and perform like magic imho

I dont know why anyone would want to buy that offbrand stuff like Shimano or Sram.
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Old 11-05-09, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RichinPeoria View Post
I like their clothes...
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Old 11-05-09, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kimconyc View Post
I like their clothes...
They make a good corkscrew aswell.
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Old 11-05-09, 04:42 PM
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Don't waste your money on pre-2009 Centaur or lower groups that have the escape shifters. The 2009 models are a huge improvement. The 2008 RDs may have a weak return spring that causes problems with the 2009 shifters.

Check out Ribble. A 2009 Veloce group is just under $500. Athena 11 is just under $750.

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/Groupsets.asp
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Old 11-05-09, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
Don't waste your money on pre-2009 Centaur or lower groups that have the escape shifters. The 2009 models are a huge improvement. The 2008 RDs may have a weak return spring that causes problems with the 2009 shifters.

Check out Ribble. A 2009 Veloce group is just under $500. Athena 11 is just under $750.

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/Groupsets.asp
Thanks for that link, very cheap! However, are the skeleton brakes and UltraShift Ergopowers worth the extra money? Thanks
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Old 11-05-09, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Robotman99 View Post
Thanks for that link, very cheap! However, are the skeleton brakes and UltraShift Ergopowers worth the extra money? Thanks
Both brakes work fine. The shifter alone are worth it IMO.
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Old 11-05-09, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by clausen View Post
Both brakes work fine. The shifter alone are worth it IMO.
What exactly is the difference? I am completely clueless about Campy products. I have never ridden one and hardly ever see them in real life. It is my (really bad) understanding that the shifters are sort of like Sora ones except the thumb lever is longer and can be easily reached from the drops.
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Old 11-05-09, 10:52 PM
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I started with Campy Record 10. The original, 2 x 5, designed by, with production personally supervised by the maestro, Tulio. 1962. This year, I went with Red. Excellente. For me, maybe not for you. I like the double-tap shift, and no adjustments needed for thousands of miles. I would try a more robust FD, but I can soft-pedal for my upshifts.

Shimano, Campy and SRAM are selling good stuff. If you go with their best products, Dura-Ace (not necessarily Dii yet, maybe), Super Record, and Red (maybe with Force or another FD), you're going to be really happy. Heavier Chorus, Ultegra/105, Force/Rival, your shifts will be sweet. Everybody is making nice stuff today. If you don't think so, try riding 42/21 on mountains, like we did in the old days.
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Old 11-05-09, 11:31 PM
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i've always been a big fan of Campys mid range groups (Centaur on the road bike, used to have Veloce on the cross rig) and they work perfectly fine. If I was to go with whole new drivetrain now, I don't think I'd bother with Campy 10 speed. I'd either do the bare minimum to go 11 speed, or I'd go with Rival.
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Old 11-05-09, 11:37 PM
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I'm not sure what your deal for Rival would have been, but I have seen brand new in box rival full group sets for around $650 on ebay. Just FYI.
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Old 11-06-09, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Robotman99 View Post
What exactly is the difference? I am completely clueless about Campy products. I have never ridden one and hardly ever see them in real life. It is my (really bad) understanding that the shifters are sort of like Sora ones except the thumb lever is longer and can be easily reached from the drops.
The 2009 shifters are a totally new design with a more comfortable shape to the brake hoods, longer brake levers and an entirely new internal mechanism that should require less maintenance and it's easier to repair. The Veloce level has the same internal parts as the more expensive Record level, except for a bushing on the main pivot shaft instead of ball bearings.

2007-2008 Centaur and lower level shifters have what's called the escape mechanism. This is a limited ability mechanism that was formerly used only at the cheapest Xenon level. Campy no longer offers it. The thumb button is not much, if any different than other shifters from those years, but it can only shift one cog at a time. Higher levels can shift through the entire cassette with one push of the button.

The new ultrashift lever thumb button can shift up to 5 cogs smaller with one push. That's more than you'll ever need.

The skeleton brakes are just lighter, but don't work any better.

https://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...2009+ergopower

Last edited by DaveSSS; 11-06-09 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 11-06-09, 08:28 AM
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Hands down the new 2009 shifters are better. They feel better in your hands, the brake levers are longer and you don't have to rebuild them every year.
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Old 11-06-09, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by nitropowered View Post
Hands down the new 2009 shifters are better. They feel better in your hands, the brake levers are longer and you don't have to rebuild them every year.
Nothing wrong with rebuilding, if you are a tinkerer. Tulio Campagnolo was a tinkerer. I love playing around with my bikes. Some of you do too. Others not so much.

I think it will be really cool when Shimzo, or competitors, introduce next-gen electronic shifting that computes and actuates combined FD and RD shifting, when you input downshift or upshift. And then next-next-generation measures your cadence and torque, and you program shift-point preferences, so you do your pedaling, and the computer shifts accordingly. Maybe giving you a default-warning beep to allow you to override if you don't want to change gears.
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Old 11-06-09, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Eclectus View Post
Nothing wrong with rebuilding, if you are a tinkerer. Tulio Campagnolo was a tinkerer. I love playing around with my bikes. Some of you do too. Others not so much.

I think it will be really cool when Shimzo, or competitors, introduce next-gen electronic shifting that computes and actuates combined FD and RD shifting, when you input downshift or upshift. And then next-next-generation measures your cadence and torque, and you program shift-point preferences, so you do your pedaling, and the computer shifts accordingly. Maybe giving you a default-warning beep to allow you to override if you don't want to change gears.
That sounds like a fall hazard if you put it on a race bike. Imagine that you stand to pedal and it decides to shift as your mashing down...

Electronic shifting sounds cool, but I'd still rather control it myself.
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Old 11-06-09, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
have you checked the prices that a certain wheel building bf member sells rival at?

hint, look below.
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post
He's not selling them anymore.
Thanks....in negotiations.
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Old 11-06-09, 11:50 AM
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I have been using 2009 Centaur (carbon) this year and have been pleasantly surprised. I have tried the 2009 Veloce and it feels the same to me and is quite a bit cheaper. The group parts are all pretty close in weight except for the cranks, the carbon centaur crank is over 200 grams lighter. I think that a Veloce group with the carbon centaur, or even a better deal, a Fulcrum carbon crank would be a really nice, fairly light, group.

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Old 01-09-10, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Robotman99 View Post
Unfortunately the deal for my Rival gruppo fell through so I'm starting to look for another groupset again. I've checked out some Campy groups and I was wondering how do the 10 speed groups compare to Shimano and SRAM's offerings?

2008 Veloce (with Ultra torque crankset and D-skeleton brakes) is a couple hundred bucks cheaper than Ultegra SL or Rival. How does it compare to those groups? Mirage is again cheaper than Veloce by a bit over $100. Again, how does that group compare? I've done a search on BF but all those threads were quite old and I'm seeking info on the newer lines. Thanks
Hi Rob-
Let's put Ultegra SL or Shimano 600 aside for a minute.
Are you familiar with Shimano Sora? or Tiagra ?
much better than mirage and veloce, by far.....
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Old 01-09-10, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by boazmoss View Post
Hi Rob-
Let's put Ultegra SL or Shimano 600 aside for a minute.
Are you familiar with Shimano Sora? or Tiagra ?
much better than mirage and veloce, by far.....
Huh?
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