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Crit Aero Wheelset??

Old 11-10-09, 01:05 PM
  #1  
purefreedom
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Crit Aero Wheelset??

im looking for a wheelset to race on next season...the races are about 95% crits in the MABRA area...I wanted something Aero that would definately hold up to the abuse of crit racing...is there even a benifit to racing crits with Aero wheels? what do you guys think? thanks
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Old 11-10-09, 01:10 PM
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Surely stiff and with a light rim is the order of the day for criteriums? Unless you really like the way Zipp 404's steer through corners (which I admit is quite nice) and can actually afford a pair of course. You want tubs either way- saves rim weight and corners much nicer.

I'd go with handbuilts- 330g alloy rims, spoke count appropriate to your weight. Radial lace the front, 2x 3x rear with a heavier gauge spoke on the drive side. DT revolution spokes are really light, use them and then DT Competition on the other side. Use alu nips. That should make a super stiff wheelset that gets up to speed really fast. Also if you crash and wreck a wheel, the cost of a new rim is not so great.
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Old 11-10-09, 01:12 PM
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Zipp 404 tubulars would be an excellent choice. Very light. Aero, and will handle nicely with a quality set of tubular tires.

Of course they aren't cheap.
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Old 11-10-09, 01:43 PM
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what about anything from Reynolds, Mavic, Easton, etc??
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Old 11-10-09, 01:49 PM
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I love my Easton Aero EC 90's but haven't tried them at a crit yet.
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Old 11-10-09, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by purefreedom View Post
im looking for a wheelset to race on next season...the races are about 95% crits in the MABRA area...I wanted something Aero that would definately hold up to the abuse of crit racing...is there even a benifit to racing crits with Aero wheels? what do you guys think? thanks
Huge benefit to aero wheels in a crit since the speeds are usually very high. But since you have to accelerate them a few times each lap, you want them to be somewhat light as well, and stiff enough for sprinting.

Something in the 50-80mm range but still under 1600 grams seems to be best. It depends on your budget. Soul has the 1465g 50mm full carbon clincher. Something like a 404, or 808 I see a lot of the pros on at crits.
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Old 11-10-09, 02:56 PM
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First choice Reynolds DV46's lighter, stronger and better hubs than 404's.
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Old 11-10-09, 03:46 PM
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404 tubulars are a few grams lighter than Reynolds DV46 tubulars. (1278 grams to 1315 grams were the published weights I saw.)

Admittedly the Ultralight version of the Reynolds is lighter, but then the strength advantage might flip around.

And the 404's are likely to be more aero with 12mm deeper rims, and the torroidial rim shape, and the dimples.

From an aero point of view, I would think the Reynolds would be more comparable to 303's.
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Old 11-10-09, 08:02 PM
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I really like my XRP 50mm carbon tubulars (from the groupbuy here a couple of years ago) for crits. They weigh 1530 grams and have been bulletproof through some really rough races and roads. I have flatted clinchers in a race but never a tubular (knock on carbon).

They were $399 then which is a deal you can't match now. However, Psimet has the same rims for a pretty good deal, handbuilt with better hubs.
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Old 11-10-09, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
404 tubulars are a few grams lighter than Reynolds DV46 tubulars. (1278 grams to 1315 grams were the published weights I saw.)

Admittedly the Ultralight version of the Reynolds is lighter, but then the strength advantage might flip around.

And the 404's are likely to be more aero with 12mm deeper rims, and the torroidial rim shape, and the dimples.

From an aero point of view, I would think the Reynolds would be more comparable to 303's.

The 46ul's are around 150g lighter than the 404's and are as aero. Also the hubs on the Reynolds are better as well. As for strength I've broke a spoke in my front wheel and it hardly lost it's true.
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Old 11-10-09, 10:41 PM
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I have DV46 tubulars and clinchers. I'm convinced that these wheels are slower than HED3s (or TriSpokes, which is what I have) or 404s. Slower in top speed or sustainable speed, not in acceleration. The DV46s are the lightest wheels I have and they accelerate insanely well.

I'm trying to think of a way to move to HED wheels (Stinger 6 + Jet 6). I need a reasonably low total cost to move over, and I'd need to basically sell all my wheels to do it (I'd subscribe 100% to the 23mm wide rim concept and therefore need to replace box aluminum wheels as well). This is because I think that more aero wheels would be a good thing for me.

My DV46s do accelerate pretty quickly, and I don't have the lightest by far. They're also pretty stiff - the old Zipp 440 rim I have in the front (which I usually racee instead of the DV46 tubular) is much, much more flexible, to the point that I ended up veering across a curving road in a sprint. I couldn't get the front wheel to track where I wanted and I drifted literally to the curb, easing up in order to regain control.

That said, I still think the 440 front wheel is faster overall, therefore I use it.

(Keep in mind front wheels affect aero more, and tall rear wheels make your bike more stable).

The place where the wheels really make a difference (for me) is when I'm sitting in at high cruising speeds. For example, it's pretty common for the field to move along at 30-34 mph on flatter courses (Cat 3s - in Cat 2s you add a couple mph and multiply the number of minutes by like 5). I found out, the hard way, that box section wheels forced me to keep pedaling in sections that I otherwise would coast in. When I switched to TriSpoke/HED3s or 440s I could coast or soft pedal significantly more while maintaining my position (same course, same other racers, one week apart). This coasting and soft pedaling would let me build reserves for later in the race.

This relates to a comment made on a different thread - FTP lets you finish a race, peak power lets you win. Since my FTP is so low, I need help in going faster for a given FTP. Aero wheels helps me rest more, therefore my effective FTP is higher. My peak power is fine, but often my FTP is too low to let me finish a race, or if I do, I'm too wasted to sprint.

In other words, imagine if you had to race on 2" wide knobbies in the race? Forgetting the traction bit for a second, the wheels would require you to work constantly to keep them rolling. Coasting becomes kind of a forgotten thing. Non-aero wheels are kinda like the same thing - they need constant input compared to aero wheels.

Of course, if you're racing in races with me, you shouldn't use aero wheels. I mean, seriously. They're dangerous because they catch crosswinds, they cost a fortune if you crash them, and they really don't help at all. It's just marketing

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Old 11-11-09, 08:45 AM
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404 tubulars.

[/thread]
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Old 11-11-09, 09:26 AM
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Disagree pete.

HED Stinger 4 - Flamme Rouge

[/thread]

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Old 11-11-09, 09:58 AM
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Actually, Stinger6's, ~1350g and 60mm deep. /thread

But fwiw, I run Stinger9's for everything with no problems at all.
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Old 11-11-09, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cslone View Post
Actually, Stinger6's, ~1350g and 60mm deep. /thread

But fwiw, I run Stinger9's for everything with no problems at all.
where do YOU buy your HEDs? And how much better are the new ones than the old old old CX deep section/carbon fairing-ed ones?

OP - did you ever give a budget?
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Old 11-11-09, 11:16 AM
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If you want the best deep rims out there no questions asked then its Edge rims. They are lighter, stiffer, and much stronger than any other rim in their depth. I weigh 190 and I ride a pair of 68s in 20/24 daily in the Colorado Front Range.
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Old 11-11-09, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery View Post
If you want the best deep rims out there no questions asked then its Edge rims. They are lighter, stiffer, and much stronger than any other rim in their depth. I weigh 190 and I ride a pair of 68s in 20/24 daily in the Colorado Front Range.
I really, really want some Edge wheels. The plan is to have saved up by next spring.

I'm thinking 68 clinchers with DT240s and Aerolites or CX-Rays. Or 45 front, 68 rear. What kind of spoke pattern should I be looking at if I'm 140 lbs (an overestimate) with cycling gear?

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Old 11-11-09, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kudude View Post
where do YOU buy your HEDs? And how much better are the new ones than the old old old CX deep section/carbon fairing-ed ones?

OP - did you ever give a budget?
I get them directly from HED. As for how much better...how much better at what? I have had the CX's, Jet's and Stingers. The Stingers are stiffer because of the shorter spokes(connect directly to the carbon rim) and in my experience, more durable. They are structural carbon instead of the carbon fairing like the Jets. As for aerodynamics, in theory it is better with the Stingers because of the tire/wheel interface with tubulars vs clinchers. The thing I don't care for is the carbon braking surface. I do like the aluminum track on the Jets better.

In the end, about anything from HED is going to be a very solid performer. In the grand scheme, buy what you like. As long as you stick with the big players in the market, you'll get a decent product and the difference in comparable wheels from company to company is probably minuscule anyway.
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Old 11-11-09, 12:50 PM
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I personally like reynolds because of the crash replacement coverage you can buy.
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Old 11-11-09, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tubescreamerx View Post
I really, really want some Edge wheels. The plan is to have saved up by next spring.

I'm thinking 68 clinchers with DT240s and Aerolites or CX-Rays. Or 45 front, 68 rear. What kind of spoke pattern should I be looking at if I'm 140 lbs (an overestimate) with cycling gear?
That setup would be great. I would opt for a different front hub. (Alchemy ELF)
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Old 11-11-09, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery View Post
If you want the best deep rims out there no questions asked then its Edge rims. They are lighter, stiffer, and much stronger than any other rim in their depth. I weigh 190 and I ride a pair of 68s in 20/24 daily in the Colorado Front Range.
...And conveniently, you just happen to sell them.
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Old 11-11-09, 03:33 PM
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Hed 9s
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Old 11-11-09, 04:36 PM
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HED sells through dealers now. That's key, because a lot of racers are employees. With just a few guys buying wheels for themselves through the store, a shop can become a top level dealer.

Their wheels are inexpensive enough that you don't need a crash replacement policy. They cost as much new as other company's replacement policies, esp if you have an in with a store.

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Old 11-11-09, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
...And conveniently, you just happen to sell them.
I sell other wheels as well.
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