Power Meter (iBike Pro)
11-15-09, 07:48 PM
#26
Peloton Shelter Dog
I'm pretty sure "vaporware" is a "silicon valley" term. What is your definition then, something you can't buy? Most people just call that not available.
The proposed release date is not very far away, close enough that if someone is considering buying a powermeter, they should probably wait to see if the Vectors pan out to be "vaporware" or not. Its entirely possible that people shopping for a powermeter now might not be dropping any money until the vectors are already available, it would be silly to simply write them off if you might not be purchasing for 3-4 months.
It would nice if, when someone is asking about powermeter options (and thus might be purchasing 3 months from now, or at least willing to wait that long), people could recommend they look into the Vector system without some mouth-breather making a one, incorrectly used word reply that writes off what could end up being the best value *BY FAR* of any of the real powermeters out there.
The proposed release date is not very far away, close enough that if someone is considering buying a powermeter, they should probably wait to see if the Vectors pan out to be "vaporware" or not. Its entirely possible that people shopping for a powermeter now might not be dropping any money until the vectors are already available, it would be silly to simply write them off if you might not be purchasing for 3-4 months.
It would nice if, when someone is asking about powermeter options (and thus might be purchasing 3 months from now, or at least willing to wait that long), people could recommend they look into the Vector system without some mouth-breather making a one, incorrectly used word reply that writes off what could end up being the best value *BY FAR* of any of the real powermeters out there.
B) It could be an intriguing value, but 'the best value BY FAR'? Wait until you can actually take one home.
C) If and when it ceases to be Vaporware, it then has to be proven. On the road. In races. Under duress. In the 20º cold and 100º heat. In 1400 watt sprints. Under the extreme duress of competitive road cycling.
Relax. Wait 12-18 months. Then decide. If you need a PM in the meantime buy a used Ptap, sell it if you find the Vector a better system later. Won't cost you much to do that.
Unlike unproven Vaporware, the Ptap is available, works fine, and has a solid, responsive (great support) company behind it.
11-15-09, 07:56 PM
#27
@ Checkmate Cycling
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A) Vaporware. They are projecting Q1 2010. That could easily become next summer. Or later.
B) It could be an intriguing value, but 'the best value BY FAR'? Wait until you can actually take one home.
C) If and when it ceases to be Vaporware, it then has to be proven.
Relax. Wait 12-18 months. Then decide. If you need a PM in the meantime buy a used Ptap, sell it if you find the Vector a better system later. Won't cost you much to do that.
Unlike unproven Vaporware, the Ptap is available, works fine, and has a solid, responsive (great support) company behind it.
B) It could be an intriguing value, but 'the best value BY FAR'? Wait until you can actually take one home.
C) If and when it ceases to be Vaporware, it then has to be proven.
Relax. Wait 12-18 months. Then decide. If you need a PM in the meantime buy a used Ptap, sell it if you find the Vector a better system later. Won't cost you much to do that.
Unlike unproven Vaporware, the Ptap is available, works fine, and has a solid, responsive (great support) company behind it.
If it comes out and does what it says, it will be probably the least expensive wireless powermeter available - plus it has the ability to at release/in the future analyze your pedal stroke for each leg.
Yes it has to be proven, but it won't take very long for people to get an idea if this is a worthwhile product or not. If it comes out on time, there will instantly be a waiting list and people trying it out, finding flaws, and posting reviews on places like this.
You're right, if you need a power meter before the end of March - buy something else because even the Vector people aren't promising it will be out before then. If you are planning on saving up/waiting anyway, you might as well SEE if Metrigear will deliver on time and see if it is worthwhile - if not, take the money you saved up and buy a PTap or Quarq - they aren't going anywhere.
So what I'm saying is, if you're waiting - don't dismiss the Vector as "vaporware" when it just might be a great deal by the time you buy. Or it might not, but don't write it off now either way. I think we actually agree on that, PCad.
11-15-09, 08:13 PM
#28
Peloton Shelter Dog
Until any product is available @ retail, it is complete, total, utter, friggin VAPORWARE.
Oh well. Learn the hard way kid. We all do.
11-15-09, 08:50 PM
#29
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I think an iBike is all you can get for <$500. As long as you're okay with it's shortcomings it might work for you. Maybe a wired PT can be found.
I tried to avoid the PT to but it's vortex was too powerful.
GL
I tried to avoid the PT to but it's vortex was too powerful.
GL
11-15-09, 08:55 PM
#30
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The MetriGear PM looks interesting but they have some hurdles to overcome. I don't see it working without a seperate unit near the crank. Reason is that to transmit enough torque data to get useful stroke calculations (like SpinScan but real) the tiny batteries in the pedal crank would die quickly. Just as in their prototype, for which they have circuitry in a watter bottle housing to gather data, they'll need something to aggregate all the torque readings on each stroke then send it to a head unit that knows what to do with it.
Not that they can't overcome that but I kinda doubt they'd have that ready, and less than $1K, on the initial units. I'm watching closely though.
Not that they can't overcome that but I kinda doubt they'd have that ready, and less than $1K, on the initial units. I'm watching closely though.
11-15-09, 09:24 PM
#32
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11-15-09, 09:24 PM
#33
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I think you don't GET it. Or at least not what I'm saying. If you are saving up for a powermeter or just beginning the research process, there is nothing wrong with someone saying that you should keep an eye on the Vector. No it isn't available, but it might be by the time you buy. Yeah, it might not be - or it might suck. I agree with you there - but there is no reason for you to write it off as a non-option if the guy is still in the early stages of researching and/or saving for a PM. If you've already saved up and you don't want to wait - thats the different thing. I'd still say buy something used if you find the Vector idea intriguing, so you can afford to get them when they do come out (or IF).
11-15-09, 09:49 PM
#34
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"Vaporware is a term used to describe a product, usually software, that has been announced by a developer during or before its development, if there is significant doubt whether the product will actually be released. The term is usually applied to products which fail to emerge after having well-exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product, or when the release date is delayed repeatedly without adequate evidence of specific unforeseen hurdles that cause these delays."
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11-15-09, 09:55 PM
#35
serious cyclist
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Don't get me going on this topic, gramps. Vaporware is a term for things like Duke Nukem Forever, not something announced with a future release date. End of story, no matter how many times you and umd insist to the contrary.
Got a citation? Vaporware is not a synonym for "unreleased".
Got a citation? Vaporware is not a synonym for "unreleased".
11-15-09, 09:58 PM
#36
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ok, thanks for the replies, im assuming i shouldnt waste money money on this? any suggestions on which power meter i should get as a entry level (under $500 if thats possible)...i want to avoid the powertap only because i have to replace my hub... and its over my budget...something easy to hook up like a speedometer ....thanks again!
11-15-09, 10:12 PM
#37
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Vaporware is a derogatory term for chronically unreleased computer products, usually software. Applying it to non-computer stuff is reasonable. Applying it to every product that's been announced but not yet released just makes you look like a an old guy who's trying to be "with it" and "hip," but failing terribly.
Last edited by foresthill; 11-15-09 at 10:17 PM.
11-15-09, 10:26 PM
#38
Senior Member
I'm with pcad on this one. Even if it delivers in Q1 you don't want to get version 1.0 of it. Let someone else work out the kinks. Get the used ptap, and if the metrigear works you can sell the ptap and be out very little.
11-15-09, 10:42 PM
#39
Not actually Tmonk
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yawn
11-15-09, 10:51 PM
#40
Senior Member
I'd wait for the MetriGear Vector power meter, will cost around $900 to $1K.
https://www.metrigear.com/products/
https://www.metrigear.com/products/
11-15-09, 10:52 PM
#41
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They have development units which are capable of performing some of the required functions. I wouldn't call them working prototypes. A working prototype would actually measure power. It might need some refinement and re-packaging but it should be 90% functional. The concept they have is intriguing and will be great if they can get it to work as advertised. Recommending that a power newb wait until the end of Q1 to buy a Vector is probably not the best advice if the newb actually wants to train with power in 2010.
It sounds like you don't have much experience developing products. These guys are not Apple Computer with big fat development budgets. It's a few guys working on a shoestring budget. When the product does ship there will likely be lots of bugs to sort out and firmware revisions released. Just look at the number of software revisions Garmin issues for its cycling computers.
Buying a Vector is for an early adopter who already has at least one other powermeter to rely on and train with and who enjoys working with Alpha or Beta level products.
It sounds like you don't have much experience developing products. These guys are not Apple Computer with big fat development budgets. It's a few guys working on a shoestring budget. When the product does ship there will likely be lots of bugs to sort out and firmware revisions released. Just look at the number of software revisions Garmin issues for its cycling computers.
Buying a Vector is for an early adopter who already has at least one other powermeter to rely on and train with and who enjoys working with Alpha or Beta level products.
11-15-09, 11:05 PM
#42
Senior Member
To be clear, I'm watching this product with considerable interest. I want it to rock - hard - because it is the answer to my power meter prayers. But let's be realistic; there are still a lot of unanswered questions, not the least of which being whether it'll be available, let alone in any numbers, when they say it will. Telling the OP to wait on the Vector is crap advice, plain and simple.
11-16-09, 04:37 AM
#43
Peloton Shelter Dog
You do it your way kid.
Let me know how that works out for you.
I try to teach you idiots something and this is the thanks I get. Don't worry, I won't bother in the future. You're on your own now.
Let me know how that works out for you.
I try to teach you idiots something and this is the thanks I get. Don't worry, I won't bother in the future. You're on your own now.
11-16-09, 08:00 AM
#44
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Yes, they could be wrong. But it would be a shame to plan on buying a powermeter in the next few months, go drop a ton of money on X in Feb. and then by the end of March the Vector is available and is all they say it will be.
If it comes out and does what it says, it will be probably the least expensive wireless powermeter available - plus it has the ability to at release/in the future analyze your pedal stroke for each leg.
Yes it has to be proven, but it won't take very long for people to get an idea if this is a worthwhile product or not. If it comes out on time, there will instantly be a waiting list and people trying it out, finding flaws, and posting reviews on places like this.
You're right, if you need a power meter before the end of March - buy something else because even the Vector people aren't promising it will be out before then. If you are planning on saving up/waiting anyway, you might as well SEE if Metrigear will deliver on time and see if it is worthwhile - if not, take the money you saved up and buy a PTap or Quarq - they aren't going anywhere.
So what I'm saying is, if you're waiting - don't dismiss the Vector as "vaporware" when it just might be a great deal by the time you buy. Or it might not, but don't write it off now either way. I think we actually agree on that, PCad.
If it comes out and does what it says, it will be probably the least expensive wireless powermeter available - plus it has the ability to at release/in the future analyze your pedal stroke for each leg.
Yes it has to be proven, but it won't take very long for people to get an idea if this is a worthwhile product or not. If it comes out on time, there will instantly be a waiting list and people trying it out, finding flaws, and posting reviews on places like this.
You're right, if you need a power meter before the end of March - buy something else because even the Vector people aren't promising it will be out before then. If you are planning on saving up/waiting anyway, you might as well SEE if Metrigear will deliver on time and see if it is worthwhile - if not, take the money you saved up and buy a PTap or Quarq - they aren't going anywhere.
So what I'm saying is, if you're waiting - don't dismiss the Vector as "vaporware" when it just might be a great deal by the time you buy. Or it might not, but don't write it off now either way. I think we actually agree on that, PCad.
11-16-09, 08:19 AM
#45
Peloton Shelter Dog
You really can buy used Powertaps pretty cheap on eBay fellas. And they really do work great.
11-16-09, 11:14 AM
#47
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11-16-09, 12:40 PM
#48
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While it looks like a great idea, and I hope it actually comes to market, there are a whole bunch of great ideas that are supposed to be available, "next quarter" and next quarter never gets here.
I would not bet the farm that Vector will be available in 2010, much less 1st quarter 2010.
However, if it is, I'm buying two for the tandem.
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11-16-09, 02:44 PM
#49
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11-16-09, 03:34 PM
#50
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ok, thanks for the replies, im assuming i shouldnt waste money money on this? any suggestions on which power meter i should get as a entry level (under $500 if thats possible)...i want to avoid the powertap only because i have to replace my hub... and its over my budget...something easy to hook up like a speedometer ....thanks again!
Quarq makes a nice PM, but you'll be investing at least 2grand for that.
A friend of mine demoed the newest version ibike pro and had a hard time setting it up and calibrating it. After that, it worked. But it is a pain in the ass to set up and maintain compared to the ease of a powertap.