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Cycling Trends I Was Absolutely Wrong About...

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Cycling Trends I Was Absolutely Wrong About...

Old 01-08-10, 11:34 PM
  #76  
Jurgen
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I remember hearing "Creep" for the first time and thinking to myself, Oh, who are these one-hit wonders? (I also thought the same thing with Beck and "Loser".)

I thought the fixed craze would die quick, sudden death (like most of its brakeless devotees.) But just like Radiohead now being my favourite band, I'm totally a convert for commuting.
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Old 01-09-10, 12:04 AM
  #77  
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I thought Softride was where things were going in the 90's, saw a guy on one last year and was glad I didn't ever get one.

Flourescent bar tape was cool too. Glad that's gone now.
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Old 01-09-10, 12:08 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by grolby View Post
You have the same problem that the STI nay-sayers had 20 years ago: lack of imagination. Look, it's impossible to see all of the potential benefits opened up by a major shift in technology. STI might seem like it solved a 'problem' now, but that's the benefit of hindsight for you. Take away STI and suddenly the fact that you can't shift without taking your hands off the bars, while standing on a climb, while sprinting, etc, is a problem. But when STI appeared, it wasn't solving any problems, because downtube shifters were standard and they worked fine. Reach down, move lever, shift gear. Perfect. It may have been easier for people to see it coming, since handlebar-mounted shifters on upright bars had been around for a while, but it's clear just from this thread that there skeptics. But lo and behold, STI came out and suddenly people were saying "Holy *****, I can shift in the middle of a sprint! Whereas before, that probably wasn't on most riders' radar. And so STI came to signal a paradigm change in cycling.

Well, it's the same deal with electronic shifting. We have yet to discover all of the implications for it, but 20 years from now we will be looking back and talking about the massive shift in technology and the way we ride bikes that electronic shifting represented. We will shifting gears in ways and under circumstances that we simply would not have conceived of today but that, thanks to the march of progress, we cannot anymore imagine living without. Just as modern riders see DT levers as a massive step down.

It's impossible to say whether electronic shifting will have as significant an effect as did STI, but the significance of it will definitely be more obvious in retrospect.

As for "Maybe for a racer," it would appear that you are missing the point. What the racers use means everything to what recreational road riders use. What use does a recreational rider have for STI? You're not at a competitive disadvantage, since you aren't competing. Recreational riders have adopted STI for the same reason that anyone adopts the use of a newer and more advanced technology: it's easier, more pleasant and more fun to use. That's absolutely it. THAT is the problem that STI 'solved', and it is the problem that electronic shifting will 'solve.' It would seem that the way of the retrogrouch (and this does go the other way, so the Road Nazis aren't off the hook) is to renounce whatever new technology as frivolous and impractical while deluding themselves with the belief that they ride the gear that they do because of objective, practical reasons. The Riv-fan, Grant Petersen-types ride their lugged steel bikes with the twine and leather and mile-high head tubes because they enjoy those bikes. Roadies ride what they do for the same reason. It would do everyone a lot of good to realize that we ride the way we do because it's fun.
Very good writeup. I've always said that "No one remembers the person who said it couldn't be done." I'm not sure where electronic shifting will take us, but it does have great out of the box benefits. For one, once it's set, there are no cables to stretch and require a mid-ride adjustment. When I first saw the Di2, my question was "How long does the battery last?" I envisioned having a charger with a battery sitting at home, one on your bike and a spare in your jersey/saddle bag. Then I was told to my great surprise that it lasts long enough that you'd be replacing your drivetrain anyway.

The only two things I could see improving with electronic shift is 1) auto setup out of the box. As I understand it, you still have to do some working with it for the initial index settings. It doesn't seem like programming those derailleurs to set themselves up would be that hard. You just went from 9 to 10 speed? No problem, it resets itself. Or you just went from a 12-25 to an 11-28? It resets the tension so your derailleur cogs don't ride your 28. And 2) obviously, it's got to cost less.
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Old 01-09-10, 12:43 AM
  #79  
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Colored tires. I thought, and still hope, they would just go away. Just because you can doesn't mean you should, nothing says 'look at me, look at me' like a set of red tires. Tires should be black.
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Old 01-09-10, 07:40 AM
  #80  
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I never thought 700c was going to stay around.
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Old 01-09-10, 07:46 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by grolby View Post

Well, it's the same deal with electronic shifting.
Hardly.

I was on the scene 20-25 years back. Clipless pedals and STI were total no-brainers with huge advantages that were obvious.

Applying electronics to a system that functions perfectly well without them diminishes it in some critical ways; it introduces new ways for the system to fail at the worst possible moment, increases maintenance headaches, etc. Are there advantages to electronic shifting? Perhaps, but they're very minor compared to the potential downsides.

Regardless, I'm sure that 10-20 years from now they'll be standard fare, for better or worse.
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Old 01-09-10, 07:49 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Hardly.

I was on the scene 20-25 years back. Clipless pedals and STI were total no-brainers with huge advantages that were obvious.

Applying electronics to a system that functions perfectly well without them diminishes it in some critical ways; it introduces new ways for the system to fail at the worst possible moment, increases maintenance headaches, etc. Are there advantages to electronic shifting? Perhaps, but they're very minor compared to the potential downsides.

Regardless, I'm sure that 10-20 years from now they'll be standard fare, for better or worse.
You are not such a dimwit afterall
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Old 01-09-10, 07:49 AM
  #83  
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Woe to the cyclist who bought one of these bikes.



Unfortunately he probably replaced it with one of these.

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Old 01-09-10, 08:51 AM
  #84  
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Applying electronics to a system that functions perfectly well without them diminishes it in some critical ways; it introduces new ways for the system to fail at the worst possible moment, increases maintenance headaches
Yes, but it also removes existing points of failure and maintenance headaches. My impression is that given the choice, most road cyclists would choose performance over stability and versatility (for lack of better terms) anyways.
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Old 01-09-10, 08:56 AM
  #85  
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I've got enough batteries to worry about. Are these things self-charging?
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Old 01-09-10, 09:15 AM
  #86  
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There was nothing wrong with the Trek 2300. What's the problem?
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Old 01-09-10, 09:28 AM
  #87  
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Rap Music. When I moved to the midwest, someone asked me what kind of music I liked. My reply was that it was better to say what I don't like, and that is Rap music. They said "what? what's rap music?" and I sad don't worry, it is so horrible it will never make it out of NYC and other urban hell holes, you won't ever suffer finding out.

Then to complete my 1980's decade of predictions, I attended my first auto show, and left laughing hysterically at a concept vehicle I saw there. A "mini-van???!!!!???" Haw, haw, haw, who the hell would buy that????

In the 90's I went to five local bike shops, wanting a road bike. Three of the five didn't even have any road bikes. The two that did had only $3000 plus road bikes. I asked where the entry level road bikes were, and they said that nobody buys road bikes anymore, just mountain bikes and hybrids. Road bikes are only for racers now. And I believed them.
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Old 01-09-10, 09:45 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
There was nothing wrong with the Trek 2300. What's the problem?
color scheme...black with monkey-puke yellow and turquoise
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Old 01-09-10, 12:19 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Hot Potato View Post
Rap Music. When I moved to the midwest, someone asked me what kind of music I liked. My reply was that it was better to say what I don't like, and that is Rap music. They said "what? what's rap music?" and I sad don't worry, it is so horrible it will never make it out of NYC and other urban hell holes, you won't ever suffer finding out.

Then to complete my 1980's decade of predictions, I attended my first auto show, and left laughing hysterically at a concept vehicle I saw there. A "mini-van???!!!!???" Haw, haw, haw, who the hell would buy that????

In the 90's I went to five local bike shops, wanting a road bike. Three of the five didn't even have any road bikes. The two that did had only $3000 plus road bikes. I asked where the entry level road bikes were, and they said that nobody buys road bikes anymore, just mountain bikes and hybrids. Road bikes are only for racers now. And I believed them.
One sure sign that Rap is finally going away is the existence of the "Classic" or Oldies Rap format.
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Old 01-09-10, 12:34 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by grolby View Post
You have the same problem that the STI nay-sayers had 20 years ago: lack of imagination. Look, it's impossible to see all of the potential benefits opened up by a major shift in technology. STI might seem like it solved a 'problem' now, but that's the benefit of hindsight for you. Take away STI and suddenly the fact that you can't shift without taking your hands off the bars, while standing on a climb, while sprinting, etc, is a problem. But when STI appeared, it wasn't solving any problems, because downtube shifters were standard and they worked fine. Reach down, move lever, shift gear. Perfect. It may have been easier for people to see it coming, since handlebar-mounted shifters on upright bars had been around for a while, but it's clear just from this thread that there skeptics. But lo and behold, STI came out and suddenly people were saying "Holy *****, I can shift in the middle of a sprint! Whereas before, that probably wasn't on most riders' radar. And so STI came to signal a paradigm change in cycling.

Well, it's the same deal with electronic shifting. We have yet to discover all of the implications for it, but 20 years from now we will be looking back and talking about the massive shift in technology and the way we ride bikes that electronic shifting represented. We will shifting gears in ways and under circumstances that we simply would not have conceived of today but that, thanks to the march of progress, we cannot anymore imagine living without. Just as modern riders see DT levers as a massive step down.

It's impossible to say whether electronic shifting will have as significant an effect as did STI, but the significance of it will definitely be more obvious in retrospect.

As for "Maybe for a racer," it would appear that you are missing the point. What the racers use means everything to what recreational road riders use. What use does a recreational rider have for STI? You're not at a competitive disadvantage, since you aren't competing. Recreational riders have adopted STI for the same reason that anyone adopts the use of a newer and more advanced technology: it's easier, more pleasant and more fun to use. That's absolutely it. THAT is the problem that STI 'solved', and it is the problem that electronic shifting will 'solve.' It would seem that the way of the retrogrouch (and this does go the other way, so the Road Nazis aren't off the hook) is to renounce whatever new technology as frivolous and impractical while deluding themselves with the belief that they ride the gear that they do because of objective, practical reasons. The Riv-fan, Grant Petersen-types ride their lugged steel bikes with the twine and leather and mile-high head tubes because they enjoy those bikes. Roadies ride what they do for the same reason. It would do everyone a lot of good to realize that we ride the way we do because it's fun.
I don't disagree with much of what you are saying, but I think you missed the point of my original post. As stated, I don't see what problem the electronic shifting is trying to solve (since I've never used it). I'm trying to understand what they are since the technology has been out for a bit now.

If people can't describe some obvious benefit after the first few times they use it, it will probably be more evolutionary rather than revolutionary in the market. There have been a few posts from people that give some indication of how electronic shifting addresses the limitations of mechanical systems, but I'm still not sure I see it as a revolutioinary technology (like STI and Clippless which were immediate hits). Just trying to understand if electronic shifting is a technology that solves a compelling problem or a cool technology looking for a problem. There is nothing wrong with the latter (it describes a huge part of the cycling industry and helps with innovation as far as I'm concerned).
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Old 01-09-10, 12:36 PM
  #91  
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powermeters
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Old 01-09-10, 12:37 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by grwoolf View Post
I don't disagree with much of what you are saying, but I think you missed the point of my original post. As stated, I don't see what problem the electronic shifting is trying to solve (since I've never used it). I'm trying to understand what they are since the technology has been out for a bit now.

If people can't describe some obvious benefit after the first few times they use it, it will probably be more evolutionary rather than revolutionary in the market. There have been a few posts from people that give some indication of how electronic shifting addresses the limitations of mechanical systems, but I'm still not sure I see it as a revolutioinary technology (like STI and Clippless which were immediate hits). Just trying to understand if electronic shifting is a technology that solves a compelling problem or a cool technology looking for a problem. There is nothing wrong with the latter (it describes a huge part of the cycling industry and helps with innovation as far as I'm concerned).
The problem that Di2 addresses is Shimano's crappy front shifting. Shimano chose to finally do something about it with electronics. Campy didn't have a problem in the first place, as they knew that a front shift should never, ever be indexed.
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Old 01-09-10, 12:49 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
the internet. and I still think it's a passing fad.
I think it's here to stay...did you know they have it on computers now?
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Old 01-09-10, 01:14 PM
  #94  
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700c
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Old 01-09-10, 01:17 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by bigtea View Post
color scheme...black with monkey-puke yellow and turquoise

That is NOT monkey puke yellow, it's ore like grasshopper guts yellow judging from my summer windshield.
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Old 01-09-10, 02:05 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by OldPilot View Post
You are so right, soon the rear axle will be 12 inches wide (305mm) with 25 rear cog! What is up with the facination of adding a gear every year ([Exaggeration) but you don't see anyone adding an extra crank ring. It seems that everyone is happy with either double or triple cranks. I am waiting for the quad or cinco crank. Come get your 44 speed road bike & 55 speed MTB.
after market quad chainrings have been available in the past, dunno if they still are. One system I remember was Mountain Tamer Quad.
Originally Posted by OldPilot View Post
What ever happen to the bike that had a couple of cables for down tubes
Slingshot is still around.
Originally Posted by OldPilot View Post
& the bike that had a fiberglass top tube/seat thing going?
Softride bikes and clamp-on beams are history. They still make racks for automobiles, though?? Odd. Looks like the same logo.
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Old 01-09-10, 02:11 PM
  #97  
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when was the mountain bike boom. I remember before my 10 year abscence from cycling, i was really into my downtube shifter bike but no one but no one wanted to ride with me because they all wanted mountain bikes. i was the only person excited about going fast.
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Old 01-09-10, 04:27 PM
  #98  
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When I was about 13 or 14 I got an "English bicycle" with three gears. Wow, gears were cool and more would be even cooler. I was right about that.
When I was 22 or so I first heard the Beatles sing "I want to hold your hand". I was flat sure that discordant sound would never replace doo-wop. (Wrong!) After I got used to that (and loved it) I ran into hip-hop. Bunch of sweaty people sweating and huffing. Yuk! Then rap came along and I pretty much gave up on pop music.
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Old 01-09-10, 05:20 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Felt Z65 View Post
Then rap came along and I pretty much gave up on pop music.
I enjoy
Rock, pop, classical, big band, bluegrass, blues, dixieland, a little zydeco, and select C&W. I also play trumpet and the Bagpipes.

Trust me

Rap is NOT music, Techno is not music.

Rap is noise, techno is nothing but a repetitive lack of creativity.
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Old 01-09-10, 05:27 PM
  #100  
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Just because you guys don't like rap or hip-hop, doesn't mean you have to rail on it constantly. Jeez.

I listen to everything. And I mean everything. Classic rock, Classical, bluegrass, blues, southern rock, hip-hop, rap, some pop, country, jazz, etc.

And if you just don't like the rap that you hear on the radio, neither do most people who actually like rap and hip-hop. That's what we call pop-rap, and it generally sucks.
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