Hills definitely get easier, and it's all about power to weight ratio. This coming from a distinctively non-climbing rider.

I'm out in SoCal right now, doing my now-regular training camp. I go and do stuff like climb hills, stuff I avoid doing back at home. In recent years I've struggled over hills, usually getting into my bottom gear (39x25) immediately on virtually all the many rollers in the area. When I first came out here I was about 200-205 lbs, coming off a very tough period of life. I've been here in the 180s and 190s as well. I've never found climbing to be easy. My BMI, for what it's worth, was in the 30s for a bit. Now it's in the mid 20s, barely.

A few years ago a rider came up to me on a climb and asked if I was okay. Obviously something was wrong because I was going so slow! He normally climbed the hill in a 53x19; I was in a 39x21, trying not to swerve too much, and I thought I was going fast.

This year I arrived here 30-40 pounds lighter than normal (30 pounds lighter than my summer "racing" weight, 40 pounds lighter than my typical "SoCal Trip" weight). I instinctively pushed gears on the climbs, trying not to swerve, etc, but then, at the top, when I go to shift into the big ring, I'm already there. I'm about the same strength compared to previous trips but the weight reduction has had a tremendous effect on my riding. I regularly think about big-ringing hills that would have left me reduced to weaving up the wide bike lane.

For a long time I subscribed to the big horsepower theory. "I can't lose the weight so I'll just get stronger". But now I'm a convert to the "install lightness" idea. I realized with a power meter that you can't gain that much fitness once you've ridden a bit. I may be able to gain 10 or 20%, substantial percentages to be sure, but to get my power to weight ratio to match some of my peers, I'd have to gain literally 60 or 70% more power. Forget it, it ain't happening. I have to be content with whatever power I have. At this rate I just have to increase my w/kg by 50% to match my Cat 3 and 4 teammates. Woohoo!

Seriously, though, weight counts.

The other thing, the open-mindedness about gearing, is critical. Luckily I learned this a long, long time ago.
http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...ic-and-me.html
I'm only guessing, but Wolfpit Road is probably 18-20% grade for maybe 100-150 meters, but you start it with very little momentum.

Hope this helps,
cdr

Becaure you don't agree doesn't make me wrong. I said what I said. You disagee. Doesn't make me wrong. Doesn't make you right. If its a fail because we disagee then we both fail, or neither of us do.

So you are sticking with "they never get easy"?

You are saying that it's not possible to ride easily up a hill when your fitness increases?

In any event, you failed because you said we agreed when we did not. You did not fail simply because we did not agree.

I did't fail, period. You fail. You should just agree with me and be done. You know I'm right.



Be reasonable. See it my way.



I got lots of beer and its gonna snow here all weekend.



your turn.:D

I don't have to worry about snow but it looks like it's going to rain. I've got bigger arguments in other corners of bikeforums anyway.

ok, I don't want to argue with you.


have a nice evening.

:beer:

You might be able to dial the same heart rate, but wind is a psychological issue. I can enjoy the hill and there is the descent to look forward to, but a nasty wind can take the fun out of a ride. The worst is climbing into a cold headwind.
I guess Machka isn't having that problem right now? Little warm down under?
I find when climbing on a hot day it's almost impossible to keep hydrated. If I really stay on top of it I feel a lot better than if I take a casual approach to it. I weigh myself before and after hot climbing days and 5-6 pounds lighter is not uncommon. I'm sure you're a lot smaller and ymmv.

+1, The climbs will ALWAYS suck, you just train to get through them faster.

:sigh:

I'm always the biggest one on the climbing rides, but I still love it.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...3/dawson-1.jpg

perhaps they are "too fat for this sport" ? I agree with you and a) have fun on climbs b) Do the same hills ive done before either easier than i did before or faster and in a higher gear

"you can't fix stupid" - Ron White

To enjoy climbing you have to enjoy suffering.

Edit: I enjoy climbing.

HEY THAT'S BS MAN!!!!!!!!!! I'm fat and I like to climb.:D...It gets easier. First few climbs of the year hurt. As time goes on, I can push a bigger gear without any hurt and faster add in "easier"!;)

Train on swithcback, learn to deal with the mental. Like posted above, just figure that it aint ending any time soon. It makes a huge difference!

This morning's climb, goes on for 20 miles but we did the short version today, only 8 miles of these enjoyable swithcbacks:thumb:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...treme/gmr1.jpg

Switchbacks make me smile!:)
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...treme/gmr6.jpg

HAHA awesome. i guess they are out of excuses if they train and don't get better.

With anything probably higher than an 8% grade, i restrict myself in using the biggest 3 gears on my cassette.

That way, when i'm getting tired, i know that i have these "emergency gears" to use. It really does help me because my effort loosens up and i recover a little at the same time.

I really love climbing though, i feel weak without climbing a mountain or some kind of long climb in my centuries.

I think a cadence between 75-90 is good for climbing.

But i really think i was influenced by this video, and i probably use 75% of the tips that this very helpful video gave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRFNKhNhhJQ

Thought I'd give my daily bridge a nice asswhooping today. I forgot I should take it easy today as I have been sick some days and had not been able to ride for about 2 weeks.

I failed. Bad. The ride took me 55min as always, but the bridge was hell. I flew up for about 200 meters, the other 300 meters were near-hell. Suddenly I got spiking pains in my side, and I slowed down. I started feeling very sick again and took it easy for the other 250 meters that were still left.

One thing that seems obvious here: My body is the limiting factor.

That was a nice video. But it reminded me of the number one thing I like most about climbing -- your position on the bike doesn't matter! You can sit upright, do whatever is comfortable, and you don't need to worry too much about aerodynamics. It's a nice break to be able to let loose a bit.

Maybe it would help the original poster to think about it more intellectually. It's easy for me, at least, to want to just charge up a long climb without thinking about how hard I'm going (sometimes too hard!). So it can be a good exercise to just think to myself, "OK, this is a long climb and I want to go fast without blowing up, so let me ignore everyone/everything else and just try to push a bit until I hit my anaerobic threshold, then I'll see how I'm feeling and take things from there. Maybe I don't need to go super hard today so I'll back off a little once I find my lactate threshold." On longer climbs, I think that's a good starting point for me, and it prevents the mind games from starting. The climbs I don't like are the ones that are just too steep -- like if the grade reaches 15%, I don't have the gearing to do that comfortably. Those climbs hurt no matter what. And it's easier if you're lighter. And if you aren't watching people riding away from you. I don't mind it when people ride away from me... I just don't like to watch them do it unless I'm trying to make myself hurt. :)

I find that a more upright position helps me on the steeper hills. I try to stay on the bars, not hoods or drops. Keeps my torso streighter and helps me breath easier.

They definitely do get easier. I grew up riding in Chicago, an overpass was a big hill to me back then. Now I wouldn't even blink at one. I live in the middle of the hills and love it. I have some pretty substantial climbs just out my front door (all of one minute warm-up time before the first one). When I travel I'm always looking for routes with climbs and get bored if it is too flat.

The longer and steeper ones will never be easy, but they will be easier and eventually you won't have to walk up them. The endorphins and the descent make all the hard work worthwhile. :thumb:

This looks like a job for conditioning. (Pavlovian conditioning even moreso than the physical kind.) If you dislike climbing, your challenge is not to grind through them until you become a good climber; IMO, you'll have better luck if you can change your attitude about climbing to the point that you enjoy it. And once you enjoy it, chances are you'll do it enough to get terrific at it.
Check Netflix and your local library for Tour de France DVDs. I'm pretty big (6'2" & 180 lbs), but I LOVE climbing because I got so excited watching & emulating Greg LeMond vs. Bernard Hinault. And THEN :love: Big-Mig Indurain :love: became my hero when he showed that you didn't have to be a sickly little fellow to be a successful climber.

The more I watched them, the more I wanted to go climb. Perhaps watching these climbers and visualize yourself climbing like that won't excite you like it did for me; if not, you just have to find your trigger. OR, if you absolutely dislike climbing, just stick to what you love.

But don't underestimate the power of conditioning. I still remember very vividly my first reaction at my first taste of beer at 5 years old: "People actually get excited about this awful stuff?!?!?!"
Beer doesn't taste good at all, BUT if you always drink it with friends, after work, while having fun, of course you'll inescapably be conditioned to appreciate that awful taste.

http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/psych...oning_dogs.gif

Obviously more to it... but I do agree with you 100%... so much of it is mental... and if it was not challenging and required mental toughness........ I ask you............WHAT FUN WOULD THAT BE!!!! Keep grinding them out brother..... give the hill a big ole' F-you when you begin your ascent! Put the head down and pedal your arce off.

And today, I climbed a mountain!! Or at least halfway up Lake Mountain. I would have gone all the way to the top, but I ran out of time ... climbing mountains is very time consuming. The first 12 km of my route were a very gradual climb against a headwind. The next 4 km were steep ... somewhere in the neighborhood of 10%. The next 6 km were somewhat more gradual, probably something in the 3-5% range. And that's where I turned around. Total: 44.8 km.

I'm pleased to announce that I did not walk any of it. I stopped and took breaks a few times, but did not walk. :D

Now, here's a follow-up question. How do you hill climbers get past the boredom factor? Those steep 4 kms were done at about 5 km/h. I got into a comfortable rhythm, my breathing was good, my heart rate was good ... but staring at pavement for the near-hour it took me to climb 4 km got just a touch mundane. The only thing keeping things interesting was stopping periodically to take photos.

And another question for the Australians ... how do you deal with the flies**********????

[QUOTE=Machka;10401244]
Now, here's a follow-up question. How do you hill climbers get past the boredom factor?

I think you are into something interesting here. I find grinding low gears with a heartrate around 80-85 % of max to be a very pleasurable thing to do. I do not get bored at all. My body is doing what it likes and I can concentrate on the surroundings or my own thoughts. Going faster (suffering) is quite another cup of tea. Now I am regurlarly climbing 1300 feet on snow (some singletrack and mainly forestroads) to get into the backwoods of Oslo. Much slower than in summer but still a great workout and I really enjoy doing it. It has taken me some years of riding hill repeats and generally climbing a lot to get where I am now though.

Machka. Get off your saddle. Learn to "yo-yo". Swing your bike from side to side rhythmically. Gearing and pedal cadence? You have to figure it out. You are exploring. Maybe hit a wall, stop, catch your breath, mark where you got to, and go back down. Ride some flats or gentle rollers for a few days, recover, and take on the incline again. If you persist, you will be able to get over anything. Ultimately, you'll get over the peak, you'll then want to attack it and go faster, you will look forward to it. If you need lower rear gears, check out Miche casettes and individual cogs. They have easy switchout cogs. If your largest cog currently doesn't have enough teeth, move to something with more. You might need a triple chainring up front with 22 cogs small ring. Probably not. Mostly learn to stand up, find a comfort zone, and if you get too fatigued on a long climb, you just need to improve your CV/thigh endurance with lots of repetition.